Andy Collins: "Most Magic Items in D&D Are Awful"

[hong]

I'm fairly certain that you could not say that I even implied that. Now, you are off on a straw man, because I clearly enjoy computer games quite well thank you very much. The most I suggested is that different artistics formats lend themselves more appropriately to different styles and means of experession.

Piffle. It's all about killing monsters and taking their stuff.

As for what I'm willing to defend, regarding the buying and selling of magic items, it is pretty straight forward. If your world is one in which you are comfortable with magic items being treated as commodities, to be freely bought, sold, and traded, then you are being really disengenious to complain about the fact that they are treated as commodities.

Only DMs too unimaginative to add their individual touch to a rules framework could complain about magic items being "commodities".

After all, the treating of magic items as commodities is what you set up in the first place,

By "you" you mean "I", yes?

and you shouldn't then be surprised that the mystery, oddity, diversity, quirkiness, and sometimes down right inconveinance of magic items outright disappears in such a setting because its the logical consequence of your setting choice.

What a good thing the only people complaining about this have been those too unimaginative to add their individual touch to a rules framework.

 

[jasin]

I'm not a big fan of zero-item games, I like MI, I just don't like how in 3e I hand out some cool powerful item and the PCs always sell it for lots of little boring items.

But the thing is, these cool items usually aren't very powerful (for their price i.e. the money you get for selling them). Figurines of wondrous power are among the cooler items in the DMG for me, but many people will be selling a bronze griffon (10,000 gp) to make a +2 sword. If the bronze griffon cost 50,000 gp, so you could make a +5 sword, you can bet everyone will be selling it. But if it cost 2,000 gp... I think many more people would keep it.

 

[hong]

Perhaps if there was more to your campaign setting than Kill/loot/repeat ad infinatum, then you might understand the basic concept that PC's like to own nice stuff too.

You say this like there's something wrong with killing and looting ad infinitum.

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

SPENDING 20,000 GP ON WHORES AND A NIGHT ON THE TOWN
By T-Willard

1,500gp Piece of jewelry to bribe female guild head to meet for dinner
25gp Vellum invitation to female guild head.
250gp Renting a carriage big enough for 8, with show horses and gilded carriage.
500gp Hiring temporary retainers for carriage
2,500gp Shimmer-silk mage robes
5,500gp New jewelry.
150gp New hairstyle
100gp bribe to maitre-de to get seats.
3,500gp 350 year old Elven Wine
14,500gp Red Dragon Steaks, exotic fruits and vegetables, exotic special order dessert.
200gp Doorman bribe at Inn of the Painted Lady
1,900gp for Female Guild Head to "indulge herself"
200gp for 2 glasses of exotic brandy while waiting on Female Guild Head


I think that probably tops your 20K

And now I have blackmail on the female guild head, or maybe just a patron to join the guild, or someone to advance my career and give me access to the "Vault of Deeper Secrets" so I can get a few scrolls in order to take on the BBEG.

Everything for a reason and the right tool for the right job.

 

[hong]

SPENDING 20,000 GP ON WHORES AND A NIGHT ON THE TOWN
By T-Willard

1,500gp Piece of jewelry to bribe female guild head to meet for dinner
25gp Vellum invitation to female guild head.
250gp Renting a carriage big enough for 8, with show horses and gilded carriage.
500gp Hiring temporary retainers for carriage
2,500gp Shimmer-silk mage robes
5,500gp New jewelry.
150gp New hairstyle
100gp bribe to maitre-de to get seats.
3,500gp 350 year old Elven Wine
14,500gp Red Dragon Steaks, exotic fruits and vegetables, exotic special order dessert.
200gp Doorman bribe at Inn of the Painted Lady
1,900gp for Female Guild Head to "indulge herself"
200gp for 2 glasses of exotic brandy while waiting on Female Guild Head

Bad Warlord Ralts! Reducing female guild heads, red dragon steaks and 350-yr-old elven wine to the status of commodities!

 

[Bagpuss]

Err... I'd like to know where these supposed magic item Wal-Marts exist at. If any item below a town's gp limit is available, it doesn't mean they're all in one super-store. It just means that you can get them somewhere. The weaponsmith might have some enchanted blades; the armorer a wide selection of mithral shirts (he does know his customers, after all), the church of the goddess of healing offers cure wands and potions for a donation, and the artificer's guild will make unusual items on commission. But since this is Dungeons & Dragons not Merchants & Magic Items, spending a lot of time in-game on exactly who has what for sale in a given city is usually not all that important.

I'm confused. You start by saying that there are no magic item Wal-Marts, then go on to give examples of the various small shops where you could sell/buy any magic item you want, but then say you don't spend in-game time on that, so basically turning any town effectively into a magic item Wal-Mart.

Which case were you trying to prove?

 

[Seeten]

What's this? You expect my character to just buy magic items, and never enjoy the fruits of adventuring? Where's the ale and whores from the legends?

Did Conan lie to me that treasure == hot babes and cold ale?


Perhaps if there was more to your campaign setting than Kill/loot/repeat ad infinatum, then you might understand the basic concept that PC's like to own nice stuff too.

Where's he going to keep his extra equipment? in a hovel, buried under the dirt floor? Where's he going to do his research? Where's he going to store his trophies? Where is he going to frame the signet ring sealed pronouncement that he's a hero of the kingdom after stopping Lord Eviljerk?

Oh, wait, adventurers should never leave the dungeon or forest, and should carry everything around in magic bags, because apparently PC's never want to enjoy themselves with some of the money.

"OK, I got 10 gp left, I better buy.... a dagger! Yeah! You know the rule of the gods, every CP we don't spend on equipment is taken from our next horde!"

Awww, aren't you cute, being all amused.

You know, for someone who has never GM'd a game of D&D, you sure are opinionated on what makes a good game.

Tell ya what, skippy, GM a game of D&D, just one, and come back and tell us how easy it is again.

Ales and Whores are cheap. Coppers dont impact the wagonload of treasure that come out of any written adventure, let alone "old style" dungeons. I recall Gary Gygax telling the Tomb Of Horrors story where the PC's had to cart the treasure out in 4 wagons, there was so much.

Conan didnt need a magic sword, he played Iron Heroes.

Nobody said GMing was easy, except maybe you guys. You claim DM's who are new, or not so great, ought to be able to jury rig encounters on the fly while giving out helms of underwater action and floating boats. I'm the one who called you on it, now DM'ing suddenly ISNT easy, when its convenient for your argument? Heh.

Skippy? Thats a new one. I think I heard it from the kid at the FLGS while he played Magic. Least we've moved on from "Hotshot" that one was pretty hurtful.

 

[Seeten]

SPENDING 20,000 GP ON WHORES AND A NIGHT ON THE TOWN
By T-Willard

1,500gp Piece of jewelry to bribe female guild head to meet for dinner
25gp Vellum invitation to female guild head.
250gp Renting a carriage big enough for 8, with show horses and gilded carriage.
500gp Hiring temporary retainers for carriage
2,500gp Shimmer-silk mage robes
5,500gp New jewelry.
150gp New hairstyle
100gp bribe to maitre-de to get seats.
3,500gp 350 year old Elven Wine
14,500gp Red Dragon Steaks, exotic fruits and vegetables, exotic special order dessert.
200gp Doorman bribe at Inn of the Painted Lady
1,900gp for Female Guild Head to "indulge herself"
200gp for 2 glasses of exotic brandy while waiting on Female Guild Head


I think that probably tops your 20K

And now I have blackmail on the female guild head, or maybe just a patron to join the guild, or someone to advance my career and give me access to the "Vault of Deeper Secrets" so I can get a few scrolls in order to take on the BBEG.

Everything for a reason and the right tool for the right job.

Amazing. Congratulations. You win the intarwebz.

 

[Ralts Bloodthorne]

Ales and Whores are cheap.

Only if you're cheap.

Good ale, and good whore, well, they cost.

Coppers dont impact the wagonload of treasure that come out of any written adventure, let alone "old style" dungeons. I recall Gary Gygax telling the Tomb Of Horrors story where the PC's had to cart the treasure out in 4 wagons, there was so much.

So, what do you expect them to spend it all on?

Conan didnt need a magic sword, he played Iron Heroes.

Not according to my issue of Dragon magazine. According to this, he played 1E.

Nobody said GMing was easy, except maybe you guys. You claim DM's who are new, or not so great, ought to be able to jury rig encounters on the fly while giving out helms of underwater action and floating boats.

Yes, if they can read.

I'm the one who called you on it, now DM'ing suddenly ISNT easy, when its convenient for your argument? Heh.

Wow, talk about flip-flopping. You're worse than a flapjack, hero.

Look, all I said was why don't you come back after GMing a game, and tell us what you think.

Right now, since you've never even GM'd anything that is part of the topic, you come across like someone's little brother running into the room because he wants people to pay attention to him.

I said that the sections where your GM failed, he GM'd because he didn't read. Something I'm believing you may have in common with him, Spandex Boy.

I told you to come back when you have some experience GMing the subject at hand.

Understand yet?

Skippy? Thats a new one. I think I heard it from the kid at the FLGS while he played Magic. Least we've moved on from "Hotshot" that one was pretty hurtful.

While he played Magic?

Arrrgh, I am stricken by your wit!

How will I ever survive the barbed attacks of the internet equivelant of a retarded lemur? How shall my manhood ever be redeemed after the vicious attack of such a grand wit! My poor widdle feewings have been hurt by such an obvious display of internet manhood!

SAVE ME JEEBUS!

If you're trying for the insults game, you suck.

 

[I'm A Banana]

5,500gp New jewelry.

!!!!!

If any of my D&D characters are blowing that kind of dough on glittery trinkets for saucy bints, they deserve to get their butts handed to them by the Great Red Dragon.

They're adventurers, for cripes, not foppish nobles who don't know the true value of a gp!

If a member of my party spent that on basically a free gift of herpes, I'd revoke his treasure privileges on the grounds of being a sodding twit with more sex drive then sense!

Talk about a awful magic item! 5,500 gp?! Why?!