Andy Collins: "Most Magic Items in D&D Are Awful"

[Jefe Bergenstein]

With all due respect to Andy Collins, this is a dumb argument. Magic items are as wondrous or dull as a Dungeon Master makes them and it's up to the players to suss out just how much significance an item has. So they "only" affect rules in any one given way: so what! Injecting some color and some thought in to what they do or how they do it really isn't that hard to do.

If he's that concerned, perhaps he should consult D&D (the 1974 rules) and apply intelligence to his magic items as swords are in that august edition of the game and really give his players something to have fun with.

Frankly, I think this is another case of someone forgetting how to have fun with DUNGEONS & DRAGONS and wholly overthinking one tiny aspect of the game.

Everything new is bad!

Please. No one ever gave 2 craps about a +1 sword. OOooooh, I hit 5% more of the time. I'll chuck it in the bag with my other horde of +1 weapons. Because if you played that dreadful edition, by the rules, thats what you'd have. A monstrous pile of items, if you went by the treasure charts and not the hypocritical chest thumping DM advice of "make your players wash your car to find a rusty bottle cap on a stick!".

Its not forrgetting to have fun. Its applying logical design to the game. I'm glad its being done for the first time.

I'm sorry 3rd edition ran over YOUR dog.

 

[Seeten]

Andy Collins:
"Ultimately, we realized that the greatest factor influencing the likelihood of a particular magic item being used by a character came down to its cost."

Naw, this just shows how much they have the wrong end of the stick. The big problem is not pricing, but fungibility. If you can reliably sell the rarely-useful exotic item, and buy the routinely useful-at-staying alive item, that's what you'll do, because D&D players fear PC death. Most would sell a Helm of Underwater Action for a +1 sword, if they didn't already have such a sword. The only solution is not to have items regularly available to buy at all.

Actually, in your hypothetical campaign, I'd give your ridiculous helm to charity, and walk around with my wooden longsword, and rusty platemail. You can keep your terrible items, thanks.

I was "lucky" enough to actually play in a game like this, too. My level 8 Barbarian had NO magical gear beyond a pair of "Boots of Survival" granting him a +10 survival skill. No magic weapon, no gauntlets of strength, nada. We fought demons with DR/magic, my ac was 15, no magic armor for me! We still fought giants who power attacked too.

But hey, I had my "cool and interesting" boots.

I love how DM's think they are so cool, and their treasure is just so wonderful players should be excited just at the thought of a pair of fur boots, but, uh, yeah. Whatever.

 

[Emirikol]

Andy worked hard to point out two things:

1. Magic items are too expensive, if you buy my book, they'll be cheaper here

2. Your DM is obiously a scrooge for not giving enough items out, if you buy my book, your DM will have no choice but to let your wizard make dozens and dozens for you.

3. If you buy my book, we'll have every combination possible so that you don't lose out on having to choose between two cloaks or three rings.

..if you buy my book.

Magic items are boring...that's the problem with magic items...but if you buy my book..they'll become exciting and new.


jh

 

[Celebrim]

Interesting to who? To you?

Figurine of owlish power might be interesting to the DM, or maybe a ranger, but my Sorcerer couldnt care less about it. Yet it still counts against my wealth as though it were a useful item, and the Colossal Red Dragon now is apparently a fair fight, since I meet the wealth by level guidelines...with my owl.

Errr, I think he was making it fairly clear that he doesn't give a crap about the suggested wealth by level guidelines, and hense, he doesn't give a crap about caring whether his PC's meet some hypothetical and highly suspect absolute guidelines about what is an appropriate challenge for a party of a given character level.

Instead, he's suggesting that a 'random' assortment of items some of which are more powerful and some of which are less powerful than default for a character level makes for a more interesting time by all, because instead of a predictable suite of resources the players must use what they have at hand to meet the challenges. And yes, that is interesting for everyone, especially if the DM adds just a small ammount of common sense as guidance when the dice falling where they may produces results that ruin the campaign.

 

[Celebrim]

Actually, in your hypothetical campaign, I'd give your ridiculous helm to charity, and walk around with my wooden longsword, and rusty platemail. You can keep your terrible items, thanks.

Actually, in his campaign, I doubt you'd be invited to play, so it would be a mute point anyway.

 

[Seeten]

I wouldnt play if I were invited. Life is too short for crappy games. Also, its moot, not mute.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Threads like this make me wonder if I should have even started the new 3.5 game. "I got screwed since my wealth by level isn't the same as the book, plus my actual items aren't in the big six so they suck!". I think it just requires a DM and the players to be on the same page moreso than ever.

 

[Wormwood]

edit: oh never mind.

 

[MINI]

OK,

I read the article. Its all wrong. Equating cost to magic items isn't a be all end all nor is any character guaranteed to have more than 2 items from the big six. It goes back to the fact that playing DnD is about knowing how to use you character and not just your magic items. Cost is thrown out when you figure in use of the treasure tables an that characters will find some 'free' treasure they can resell or trade for more useful things or even keep.

I think every character above about level 3 should have a magic weapon. Beyond that I don't care what kind of magic items they get. If characters are slightly underfed on magic items they will use the pitiful items they have since its all they have or find a way to get better items (the mage might take a meta magic feat). In the end all those useless items no one wants to put in print will get hocked off fro a good amount of gold or kept by someone-- maybe even traded for an item off the big six. They still have use and sometimes can end up being really fun in the right situation (you get in a fight with weird one eyed flying bats and break out your windfan!).

So thats my 2 cents.....

 

[Cheiromancer]

Also, its moot, not mute.

I was going to keep quiet about this, myself.

I'm thinking it might be better to have an innate bonus for the "big six". A level based system that automatically applies an enhancement bonus to your stats, weapons, etc.. And thereby free up treasure for more interesting items.

It'll be interesting to see how Andy tackles this problem. I'm looking forward to seeing the book.