D&D General (Anecdotal) conversations with Asian gamers on some problems they currently face in the D&D world of RPG gaming

[Sacrosanct]

yeah, hello, this Asian found truth in what he said and backed him up. if you can't speak for others how about you don't? how about you don't do that in a thread entirely dedicated to seeing what actual Asian people thought about OA.

I wasn't speaking for others. I was referencing how what he said was a stereotype, not a fact. Because there are people who fit the stereotype doesn't change the fact that it's still a stereotype. And it's not me speaking for others when I reference the other Asians on this board who have disagreed with his assumption. I.e., I'm not referencing whether or not I'm offended, I'm merely pointing out how there are Asians who are offended, and those that aren't, and to dismiss the ones not on your side of the argument because "Asians are taught to grin and bear it", is wrong. It's literally using a stereotype to invalidate someone's feelings rather than address the actual reasons they gave.

 

[Charlaquin]

I don't say this as an Asian, but as someone who pays attention to activists, and yeah the idea of WotC being like "hey buy this racist product and we'll donate the profits to charity!" feels a little messed up.

That’s fair.

 

[Charlaquin]

That D&D was a mistake.

Eh, not a mistake, just built on a colonialist framework. As is much in our modern world. It’ll take work to deconstruct and rebuild on better foundations, but it’s work worth doing.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Eh, not a mistake, just built on a colonialist framework.

I don't think it is worth getting too deep into this one in this thread, but it is worth mentioning this is pretty hotly contested. Not everyone agrees with this argument

 

[Charlaquin]

I don't think it is worth getting too deep into this one in this thread, but it is worth mentioning this is pretty hotly contested. Not everyone agrees with this argument

Not everybody agrees the world is round apparently, so whether or not everybody agrees with something would seem to be a poor metric for determining its validity.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Not everybody agrees the world is round apparently, so whether or not everybody agrees with something would seem to be a poor metric for determining its validity. If you have an actual argument to make, make it.

I don't want to derail the thread, and I made my argument against it in the colonialist orcs thread about a year or so ago. It isn't really an argument I am eager to revisit either because emotions run so high. But again, I think this is a pretty contested claim (not something as proven as the roundness of the earth).

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

There is a meaningful difference between banning material that features same-sex relationships and removing racist RPG material from print. The former is to appease the privileged majority by removing representation of an oppressed minority. The latter is to make the hobby more welcoming to people of an oppressed minority.

“This time it’s different.”

The cry of everyone who knew better about what speech should be allowed.

I can’t even. You just used a bunch of buzzwords to say, “Speech I agree with is great, speech I don’t needS to be banned.”

Given the terrible provenance of this type of argument, and how often it has been used to suppress speech and minorities, I cannot and will not agree with this.

 

[Panda-s1]

I wasn't speaking for others. I was referencing how what he said was a stereotype, not a fact. Because there are people who fit the stereotype doesn't change the fact that it's still a stereotype. And it's not me speaking for others when I reference the other Asians on this board who have disagreed with his assumption. I.e., I'm not referencing whether or not I'm offended, I'm merely pointing out how there are Asians who are offended, and those that aren't, and to dismiss the ones not on your side of the argument because "Asians are taught to grin and bear it", is wrong. It's literally using a stereotype to invalidate someone's feelings rather than address the actual reasons they gave.

okay, but it's still a reality for some, and might explain why Asian Americans aren't coming out in droves to demand WotC remove OA. I have other Asian American friends, I know this isn't just some stereotype for people to use to invalidate other opinions. I can also point to things like the model minority stereotype on why Asian Americans might find value in being complicit on racial issues. if some Asians aren't offended you still need to view their opinion with a critical lens. I'm not black, and I give more value to Black Americans' opinions about anti-black racism, but if a black person said slavery was good I'm gonna take that opinion with a huge grain of salt.

honestly I already feel worn out coming to this thread, which again is about asking other Asian people what they thought about OA, and then being grilled about other examples of dated fiction like stumbling my way through a maze of questions is going to accurately determine the validity of my opinion on the matter despite being Asian myself, can you please understand how in a thread about actual Asian voices it's a little messed up for non-Asians to just come in and decide what is an isn't valid reasoning?

 

[Sacrosanct]

Related article. Takeaway: East Asians aren't a hivemind (imagine that) and agree or disagree on the offensiveness of the term, "Oriental". My position is that clearly enough Asians do find it offensive, and have given compelling arguments, that it's a term we shouldn't use. I, as a white man, should try to respect that, even if many Asians aren't offended. And we can move on. It's not like there aren't other terms we can use.

The term ‘Oriental’ is outdated, but is it racist?

It is now politically incorrect to use the word “Oriental,” and the admonition has the force of law: President Obama recently signed a bill prohibiting use of the term in all federal documents.

www.latimes.com

okay, but it's still a reality for some, and might explain why Asian Americans aren't coming out in droves to demand WotC remove OA. I have other Asian American friends, I know this isn't just some stereotype for people to use to invalidate other opinions. I can also point to things like the model minority stereotype on why Asian Americans might find value in being complicit on racial issues. if some Asians aren't offended you still need to view their opinion with a critical lens. I'm not black, and I give more value to Black Americans' opinions about anti-black racism, but if a black person said slavery was good I'm gonna take that opinion with a huge grain of salt.

honestly I already feel worn out coming to this thread, which again is about asking other Asian people what they thought about OA, and then being grilled about other examples of dated fiction like stumbling my way through a maze of questions is going to accurately determine the validity of my opinion on the matter despite being Asian myself, can you please understand how in a thread about actual Asian voices it's a little messed up for non-Asians to just come in and decide what is an isn't valid reasoning?

For the record, and for clarity and to head off any assumptions, the above is my position that I posted the other day.

 

[Charlaquin]

I don't want to derail the thread, and I made my argument against it in the colonialist orcs thread about a year or so ago. It isn't really an argument I am eager to revisit either because emotions run so high. But again, I think this is a pretty contested claim (not something as proven as the roundness of the earth).

I mean, the roundness of the earth is pretty hotly contested. It’s just that the people who contest it do so on an irrational, anti-intellectual basis. Again, something being contested doesn’t speak to its validity per se.