D&D General (Anecdotal) conversations with Asian gamers on some problems they currently face in the D&D world of RPG gaming

[Charlaquin]

I applaud WotC's statement that Curse of Strahd's insensitive elements will be removed with the next printing (although my wallet kind of objects to having to buy a new copy ).

By the way, the changes have already appeared in digital copies of the book. They are (to me) disappointingly minor, and probably not worth buying another copy for. Largely, they remove some of the discussion of Vistani stereotypes and all references to Vistani characters being drunk. Also they removed the bit about Ezmerelda trying to hide her prosthetic leg.

 

[Immeril]

Looking at the original 5 questions in the OP, I don't get the question on the translation to different languages. The three core books have quite a few translations into other languages. I know that there is a Japanese one available for sale in Japan as I saw it. I bought a Japanese RPG book instead of a Japanese version of the PHB because it seemed more fun. Which is completely ignored in these discussions, there are plenty of Japanese RPG developed in Japan for a Japanese audience. As an example:

Well, OP never stated the nationality of his friends. AFAIK, translations are done by GaleForce Nine.

 

[Voadam]

Had anyone watched all 24 hours of this YouTube critique?

I watched the first one a while ago. I had been told it was a good discussion of problematic issues with OA and I was interested in hearing some elucidation of the issues considered problematic. I was disappointed in the two and a half hour discussion.

Episode 1 discusses the intro, ability scores, and races from the beginning of OA. The big critique for about half the time was about how the introduction of comeliness as a stat in OA was a demonstration of how Asian characters were sexualized, exoticized, and had agency removed compared to default western characters. While I think comeliness is a terrible sexualized agency removing mechanic, it was published previously in the generic AD&D hardcover sourcebook Unearthed Arcana and three years before that in Dragon Magazine as a general terrible beauty mechanic with no connection to any real world ethnicity. I did not find their other arguments persuasive, mostly preaching to their own choir and assuming that everyone would agree most everything there is self evidently racist/problematic/terrible. I was not inspired to watch any others in the series. I do not know if he ever learned about or acknowledged his mistake about comeliness, but he keeps directing people to that episode.

I would be interested in hearing about summaries of the other episodes or their main critiques, but I do not expect to spend another 20 or so hours on it.

 

[Myrdin Potter]

Well, OP never stated the nationality of his friends. AFAIK, translations are done by GaleForce Nine.

I know that Gale Force 9 does it. There are Japanese and Korean translations. I don't think there are and Chinese ones. Without knowing the language desired and there being quite a few Asian languages, can't say much more. I think the translations are just the three core rulebooks.

 

[Immeril]

By the way, the changes have already appeared in digital copies of the book. They are (to me) disappointingly minor, and probably not worth buying another copy for. Largely, they remove some of the discussion of Vistani stereotypes and all references to Vistani characters being drunk. Also they removed the bit about Ezmerelda trying to hide her prosthetic leg.

Just found the changelog on D&D Beyond and compared it to my printed copies of CoS and ToA. It was quite underwhelming to be honest. Still, seeing the changes that were made accentuates the number of times Vistani were described as being drunk.

I know that Gale Force 9 does it. There are Japanese and Korean translations. I don't think there are and Chinese ones. Without knowing the language desired and there being quite a few Asian languages, can't say much more. I think the translations are just the three core rulebooks.

Ah, I didn't realise that translations are mostly limited to the core books.

 

[Charlaquin]

Just found the changelog on D&D Beyond and compared it to my printed copies of CoS and ToA. It was quite underwhelming to be honest. Still, seeing the changes that were made accentuates the number of times Vistani were described as being drunk.

Yeah, while I wish they had gone further, I think the sort of overhaul I would have wanted to see would have been beyond the scope of simple revision/errata to an in-print book. My fingers are crossed that the two upcoming products Crawford mentioned that feature Vistani reimagine them more thoroughly.

 

[Myrdin Potter]

Had anyone watched all 24 hours of this YouTube critique?

I watched most of the first one and smaller segments of some of the others. I think it is poorly done and does not really present what is offensive other than saying "this is offensive". As noted in this thread, they get D&D history wrong and make wild assumptions off of their mistakes. However, I think the original comment has the publication order wrong as OA came before UA. However, the Dragon Magazine article was first and the stat was not used only in OA and had nothing to do with what was claimed.

 

[Mercurius]

Thanks for posting that, @GreyLord . Haven't read the thread yet, but your points 1 and 2 are real community problems, although probably endemic throughout society. I've never been to a con or interacted with the wider gaming community beyond my play groups and online, so haven't seen such behavior, but there's been enough anecdotes to support the idea that this is a real problem.

3 is logistical. I don't know the status on translations, but don't doubt that WotC would make it happen if if they thought the money was there.

4...not sure how that could be done, other than including phrases like "inspired by feudal Japan..." and such. Of course this gets into slippery territory, because as soon as you say that you imply that you might be trying to be historically accurate.

5 is tricky and I think the most (only?) debatable point. It is too easy to call instances of inspiration and derivation "white-washing." World-building involves taking ideas from any number of sources and forming a cohesive whole. D&D is a mish-mash from a wide range of sources, meant to fit within the context of game play. I think this can be somewhat addressed in the same way as #4, but perhaps WotC should issue a statement about the nature of fantasy ideas, and that they're not meant to accurately represent real-world cultures but simply--and perhaps only--provide fun and interesting tools for game play.

 

[Panda-s1]

And while I can't speak for others, if I were one of these Asian posters in these threads who didn't agree with you, and you dismissed my feelings based on you telling me how my culture actually is, I'd probably feel insulted.

yeah, hello, this Asian found truth in what he said and backed him up. if you can't speak for others how about you don't? how about you don't do that in a thread entirely dedicated to seeing what actual Asian people thought about OA.

I /get/ that. But like with OA, we were talking about a product in the past and if OA is deemed necessary to remove, why not Al-Qadim or VRGttV?

Once that door is open, there is enough problems in D&D's back catalogue for a number of similar bannings to come about...

man what does this say about the history of D&D? :U

Now, personally, I think a better move would be for WotC to donate 100% of the profits from the book to an appropriate charitable organization*. But regardless, you’re drawing a false equivalence, and a pretty egregious one.

*of course, I’m not Asian, so take my opinion on what should be done with the book as you will, I’m fortunate enough not to be negatively affected by it.

I don't say this as an Asian, but as someone who pays attention to activists, and yeah the idea of WotC being like "hey buy this racist product and we'll donate the profits to charity!" feels a little messed up.

 

[Remathilis]

man what does this say about the history of D&D? :U

That D&D was a mistake.