Angel Finale

[Mercule]

I think I remember hearing that Hill Street Blues turned out to be the dream of an idiot savant or something, as well. Never saw that, though.

That was St. Elsewhere, not HSB. Not that I ever watched an entire epidose of both series, combined, but I am quite sure on St. Elsewhere being an autistic vision (in a snow-globe, IIRC).

 

[Cthulhudrew]

That was St. Elsewhere, not HSB. Not that I ever watched an entire epidose of both series, combined, but I am quite sure on St. Elsewhere being an autistic vision (in a snow-globe, IIRC).

Oh, yeah. That's right. Wasn't St. Elsewhere a spinoff of HSB, though? Or am I getting that wrong, too?

 

[Vocenoctum]

Wesley was probably the best developed and most interesting character on the show. I wasn't too thrilled with his death since he was my favourite character but I do not think it was overkill. Would Gunn's or Spike's death be anymore surprising? Wesley was the tragic hero of the group and his death really did bring his character evolution full circle. I would have liked to have seen a more powerful ending for him, but it was only an hour show filled wiht lots to accomplish.

Definitely Anya's death in the final for Buffy was lame. Actually, the deathitself wasn't so lame as it was the reaction to it. Especially Xander's. Wes' exit was not like this at all. They all knew there was very little chance for all of them to make to the alley.

Anya's death was so pointless. Emma Caulfield had said she had no intention of playing that character again, so they chose to kill her off.
They could have killed off Robin Wood, or many of the others...

But, Seasons 4-7 of Buffy are why I dislike the whole "In Joss We Trust" statement. For the most part they were irredeemable tripe IMO. Angel stayed pretty good for it's 5, but Conner was horrible until his two brief appearances this season. Even then the finale appearance was just a little too convenient timing wise.

They should have killed Eve!

My problem with Wes' death is that I'm not sure why Angel believe Wes could kill the warlock. I doubt he'd do it with the intention of provoking Illyria into doing it, since she'd be happy enough to smash him anyway. If Wes had gone in with explosives, maybe I could see it.

 

[Vocenoctum]

Oh, yeah. That's right. Wasn't St. Elsewhere a spinoff of HSB, though? Or am I getting that wrong, too?

Somewhere is a website linking St Elsewhere to quite a few shows. The premise being if SE was really just a dream, than it disproves all the others shows as well.

 

[Pielorinho]

ALthough this was a great finale, I have one fuzzy childhood memory that compares.

After years of struggling to make their little frontier town a success, the pioneers see a rich guy drive up in a black chariot. He sneers and pulls out his government deeds, showing that he bought up all the land that their town is on. "You belong to me now!" he cackles. "And I'm kickin' you out! I'm a-gonna sell your town to the rubes back east, cuz I got me a ready-made town that's a-gonna be empty as soon as you-uns clear out!"

The pioneers inspect the deeds. They're all legal. They're going to have to leave this town that they built with their sweat and blood.

So they dynamite the unholy crap out of the place before trundling off in a covered wagon caravan, and the evil rich guy looks on in dismay.

And thus ended Little House on the Prairie in a surreal, inappropriate, and totally awesome fashion.

Daniel

 

[Merlion]

Well, I'm not a great one for inconclusive endings, but this was pretty good.
Having each of them have their mark, and then the survivors regroup was a nice effect.
Really, my favorite thing about the whole last half of the season is Ilyria. And Wesley's death furthered that very nicely...she finally admits that yes she does have feelings.
And its interesting to note she was the only one of them who took out two memebers of the Black Thorn, and did so pretty much without sustaining a scratch.
Honestly, I would have liked it better in some ways if the end had involved her temporarily regaining most or all of her old power and kicking some major butt...but I understand that this went with the season's theme better.
And the dragon, and that walking mountain-sized sillhoute in the back were pretty nifty.
I tend to agree that one way or another, they'd find a way to survive. I dont really see how much of anything could actually kill Ilyria even in her double-reduced state. Beside which, something would most likely happen. Buffy shows up with a troop of slayers and Willow or something similiar.

I'm just annoyed it ended. The 4th season and the early part of the 5th had some so-so parts but with the whole Ilyria storyline the writting had become truly amazing.

If I had my way, Ilyria'd get her own show, or at least be in any new Buffy spinoff to take place
I mean she's really a first. First, the show actually goes into the existence of Lovecraftian elder gods/demons, something you rarely see on TV.
Then, it has one of them on the show...and more than that, the ancient demon thing becomes a real character. Not just a villian, or a curiosity. And thats actually a double first. I have never before seen them take either an ancient Lovecrafty god-thing and make he/she/it into a real character...and rarely do you see a TV show have any character that is either extremely powerful, or extremely alien in mindset, become a real living character.
Its sad really because I think maybe she and Wesley could have had something in the end if he had lived.
I hope that Lorne doesnt go off and become an addict or some such...although certainly its true that being around Wolfram and Hart must have been hard for him.

Speaking of which, I would really liked to have learned more about the Wolf, Ram, and Hart. Are they like THE supreme evil of everything and everywhere, or just that one world? We know that they were little more than ants in Ilyria's heyday. We know they have influence in Pylea.

The episode was great, but I'm very annoyed it ended. And I'll feel better if there is another Buffy show, and we learn what actually happens to everyone.

 

[Taelorn76]

And its interesting to note she was the only one of them who took out two memebers of the Black Thorn, and did so pretty much without sustaining a scratch.

IIRC she took out more than just two. Wasn't there other members of the circle in the car with Satan, or were they just lackies?

My problem with Wes' death is that I'm not sure why Angel believe Wes could kill the warlock. I doubt he'd do it with the intention of provoking Illyria into doing it, since she'd be happy enough to smash him anyway. If Wes had gone in with explosives, maybe I could see it.

I believe Wes's was sent to the warlock to betray Angel, buy some time and keep him out of the fight for a while so he could not go help the other members of the circle

 

[Mouseferatu]

IIRC she took out more than just two. Wasn't there other members of the circle in the car with Satan, or were they just lackies?

Lackies.

That does, however, bring up a question I meant to ask. Every member of the Circle seems to be someone we've seen before in this season, but I can't for the life of me recall ever seeing the Satan-looking devil in any previous episodes. Can someone jog the memory? Or was he the only member who was new to the plotline?

 

[Tarrasque Wrangler]

Lackies.

That does, however, bring up a question I meant to ask. Every member of the Circle seems to be someone we've seen before in this season, but I can't for the life of me recall ever seeing the Satan-looking devil in any previous episodes. Can someone jog the memory? Or was he the only member who was new to the plotline?

Actually they were all Black Thorn members; you'll recall Angel told Illyria that "(Devil Guy's name)" and three other members of the Black Thorns eat out together every night."

And Devil Guy has been shown as Angel's racquetball partner several times. They've never shown him as a villain, but in the penultimate episode it would appear that he was Angel's contact with the Black Thorns during his initiation process.

This brings up a question I had during the episode: Who were the guys Lindsay and Lorne were sent to kill? I don't remember them.

 

[Taelorn76]

so Illyria actually took out 5 members of the Black Thorn, the 4 in the car and the Warlock. I think odds just increased that she survived that last battle.