Angel Season Finale (Spoilers)

[Negative Zero]

personally, i don't think Angel knew or realised that W&H would mess with everyone's minds the way they did. and it may have been a simple matter not to, but W&H probably did it that way deliberately to mess with Angel. having him kill his son obviously wasn't enuff for them. it was a cool twist though that i didn't see coming.

i also didn't see the resolution of the happy family coming. when he got in the limo, i thought they were taking him to Sunnydale, and Caleb would be revealed to be Conner from another dimension or some such. far out, yes. but my train of thought has many unauthorised stops

~NegZ

 

[John Crichton]

Here we diverge. I think killing Jasmine is about the time he started wanting it. The whole stopping to talk to Angel instead of just blowing everything up out of hand thing screamed "Cry for Help" to me. A sick and twisted cry for help, but then again I'm not arguing Conner was all on his rocker.

I think Angel stopping him and not brain-wiping him would have been a good start. Conner's spent a season learning everything is a lie. Love is a lie. Good is a lie. His life is a lie. I think he was ready to give the long walk into the light a try.

Stopping him then talking to him? Already tried it multiple times. Angel knew that he was beyond saving at this point. Connor has rejected everyone. I don't buy the bomb scare as a cry for help one bit. Once you involve innocents you have crossed the line. A cry for help would be if he just strapped one to himself. What he was doing was evil, plain and simple.

That's the sticking point. I think the whole season was a part of the process of getting Conner ready for something like this. And instead of stopping him and giving him a hug or something Angel sticks him with the +1 Dagger of life-erasing.

Connor didn't want a hug. He would have killed Angel and everyone else in that room if given the chance. I saw no remorse in his eyes.

If you call erasing his existance a second chance. That Conner in the house where Angel reprised his stalker persona is not the Conner we've seen before. They just share a body.

We don't know that Connor couldn't have turned out to be a good boy given the chance. And that's exactly what Angel did, gave him the chance that he could not.

I don't know, but I would have much rather seen him have some kind of serious deep TV talk with Conner that convinces Bomb Boy he needs to do some thinking about his choices. Angel already had his plan when he went in, so far as I can see tell. No more talking or trying to get to understand Conner. Let's just brain-zap him.

He did try and speak with Connor. Connor didn't want any part of it. Angel didn't go in guns a blazing and take Connor down. He did try and talk him down. Didn't take and lives were at stake.

I don't see the brainzap as a second chance. To me, Angel killed his son. All the memories, all the experiences, however horrific, were what made Conner Conner. Angel wiped that away.

Connor hated his life. And the "brainzap" was much more than that. It was simply a second chance. Angel got rid of Connor's awful life that would have just led to more suffering and gave him a better one. Connor already wanted to die by his own freewill. So saying that what Angel did wasn't what Connor wanted doesn't add up.

Recall what Angel told the gang about the look in Connor's eyes after he dispatched Jasmine. The boy wasn't coming back, I thought that was clear. Sometimes, people can't be redeemed. There is a point where you can't come back.

I'm ok with shows changing direction too (well ok, as long as I like the new direction) but I don't see anything about Conner that's necessarily incompatible with the new direction. His mistrust of magic might come in damn useful considering how AI's partnering up with W&H.

My hope now is that Conner eventually shrugs off the W&H brainwashing and reappears a little more well-adjusted from it. That could salvage the brainwipe for me. Conner ends up remembering everything, but somehow also keeps something from the Brady Bunch of Left-Lane traffic to balance him out.

Otherwise it's just another lie perpetrated on him and after Jasmine I think he's given up on letting himself survive through lies.

I don't see it as brainwashing. I think the fabric of reality itself has been changed. Whatever Connor experienced has been washed away. Connor never loved Angel. The one man he did love is dead and the one woman he thought he loved almost brought about the enslavement of the world. And she didn't truly love him, we know that.

And as for Connor's mistrust of magic? That's a sham as well. He was just fine with Jasmine's magic. Holtz did the perfect thing to his old enemy, took away his child and then gave it back to Angel broken and beyond repair. I've thought that all along and to me that's where it looked like all this was going.

 

[Samnell]

I had a longer response, but I think this is the key point so I'll condense:

Sometimes, people can't be redeemed.

I disagree. This is fiction, anything can happen. Conner was a worthwhile and interesting character who shouldn't have just been thrown away like that.

It makes no sense for me to write him out of the show. It reeks of writers creating a character with the plan to kill them off, just so they can have that character do things they'd never do to a character they want to keep around for fear of having to confront the consequences.

Maybe it's just me. I know if I had my way the show would be Conner with Angel in a recurring role. Kartheiser is better at broody than Boreanaz will ever be.

 

[John Crichton]

I had a longer response, but I think this is the key point so I'll condense:

I disagree. This is fiction, anything can happen. Conner was a worthwhile and interesting character who shouldn't have just been thrown away like that.

It makes no sense for me to write him out of the show. It reeks of writers creating a character with the plan to kill them off, just so they can have that character do things they'd never do to a character they want to keep around for fear of having to confront the consequences.

Maybe it's just me. I know if I had my way the show would be Conner with Angel in a recurring role. Kartheiser is better at broody than Boreanaz will ever be.

I agree that anything can happen but the writers have already decided Connor's fate for this season. Instead of having Angel kill his son (which was a possibility) they gave us a more happy ending.

It seems that you really like the character and obviously saw things in him that I have not. I can understand that. However, my opinion differs in that I do not believe he was redeemable at the end of this season. I do not believe the writers used an easy way out. Keeping in mind that this could be the show's finale (not just a season finale) I thought it was a fitting end. The characters can all live on in our minds. However, if it is picked up then we'll get to see what happens. You don't know if they have written him out of the show. Nobody knows. Me? If he stays gone, fine. If he comes back, fine. I'm along for the ride and don't feel too strongly one way or the other.

 

[Lucius Foxhound]

Here's the one thing I don't get about the reality-altering Connor thing:

What happened to Connor's powers?

I mean, at some point, is he going to hug his new "mom" and have her eyes pop out of her head? Probably not. So W&H altered reality AND took away Connor's powers? I'm all for deux ex machina, but this is kind of ridiculous.

I mean, if they had that power... uh, how did Angel, Inc. ever beat them at anything? How did the Beast ever get into the building? Come on now...

 

[Vocenoctum]

I disagree. This is fiction, anything can happen. Conner was a worthwhile and interesting character who shouldn't have just been thrown away like that.

It makes no sense for me to write him out of the show. It reeks of writers creating a character with the plan to kill them off, just so they can have that character do things they'd never do to a character they want to keep around for fear of having to confront the consequences.

Maybe it's just me. I know if I had my way the show would be Conner with Angel in a recurring role. Kartheiser is better at broody than Boreanaz will ever be.

Keep in mind, as you mentioned before. You really like Conner. Few others did. Most of us were screaming at the screen that the character was stupid, and to kill him faster.

Conner's false life is fine with me, remove him, but retain him for later.

At the same time, his real life was simply brainwashing by someone else, so judging this solution evil because it's different brainwashing isn't too fair.

That said, the only thing they COULD have done, was simply revert Conner to the 1 or 2 year old he should really be at this point, undoing the entire Demon Dimension thing.

 

[Sirius_Black]

Vocenoctum stated:

Keep in mind, as you mentioned before. You really like Conner. Few others did. Most of us were screaming at the screen that the character was stupid, and to kill him faster.

Now, now, let's not exaggerate. Maybe a few times I thought about Conner being dead and his body landing on top of Dawn in Sunnydale killing her as well. Okay, more than a few times....every episode.

Conner's false life is fine with me, remove him, but retain him for later.

Well said. If the writers develop it for some reason, he can come back through various options. Then, Gunn in his new were-form can eat Conner alive and then Dawn. Whoops....there I go again....sorry..medication must be wearing off today or did I take it???

 

[Samnell]

I agree that anything can happen but the writers have already decided Connor's fate for this season. Instead of having Angel kill his son (which was a possibility) they gave us a more happy ending.

Having decided I don't like the writers' decisions, I'm unmoved by this.

Keeping in mind that this could be the show's finale (not just a season finale) I thought it was a fitting end. The characters can all live on in our minds. However, if it is picked up then we'll get to see what happens. You don't know if they have written him out of the show. Nobody knows.

Exactly, if this turns out to be something Conner eventually sees through or the spell somehow gets broke and Angel has to deal with the consequences of killing his son this wont look half so bad. But season five isn't a done deal and until it is I'm not making any assumptions about it. Until I hear otherwise, I'm considering the Conner arc done as of last Wednesday.

If in season five this turns out to be some way to help Conner get something like a normal mentality and he can then come back and fight demons I'll be satisfied. But that hasn't happened yet and might not.

 

[Samnell]

At the same time, his real life was simply brainwashing by someone else, so judging this solution evil because it's different brainwashing isn't too fair.

I think we can agree what Holtz did to Conner was evil. How it is different from what Angel did to Conner? I'm sure Holtz could say lots of things about how a life with Angel would be beyond redemption and unspeakably horrible to justify his deeds too. Isn't it hypocritical to say Holtz did wrong and Angel did right by doing the exact same thing.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I think we can agree what Holtz did to Conner was evil. How it is different from what Angel did to Conner? I'm sure Holtz could say lots of things about how a life with Angel would be beyond redemption and unspeakably horrible to justify his deeds too. Isn't it hypocritical to say Holtz did wrong and Angel did right by doing the exact same thing.

Right, that's what I said. What Angel did to him is no worse than what has already been done. He now has a chance to lead a life that isn't based on demons and their whims. It's a tad hypocritical for Angel to do nearly the same thing, but it's also done for love and hope, as opposed to sadism and anger.

So, you're right, Conner is no longer "Conner" per se, but the person that was Conner was a maladjusted psychopath, so it's fine