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D&D 5E Angels/Celestials of Different Races

Yaarel

Mind Mage
Re angels and fiends, I consider them manifestations of the cultural patterns of human alignments. Angels and fiends lack freewill and mirror human behaviors. If an angel becomes Evil, or a fiend becomes Good, it is because some human community associating with it is behaving especially Evil or Good. The astral domains of Celestial and Fiend can be, and are, influenced by humans.
 

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Yaarel

Mind Mage
For me,

• Lawful=Group
• Chaotic=Individual

So it is easy for me to imagine what the angels are about. The Lawful Good are about a just society and the Chaotic Good are about benevolent freedom and self-actualization. Neutral Good is pure Good, doing whatever it takes, whether via group or individual, to optimize for the maximum Good possible in any particular situation.
 

AcererakTriple6

Autistic DM (he/him)
For me,

• Lawful=Group
• Chaotic=Individual

So it is easy for me to imagine what the angels are about. The Lawful Good are about a just society and the Chaotic Good are about benevolent freedom and self-actualization. Neutral Good is pure Good, doing whatever it takes, whether via group or individual, to optimize for the maximum Good possible in any particular situation.
I don't know why or how this became a part of the thread, but Matt Colville has a great video on this. (It actually made me appreciate how he does alignment, even if I don't normally like alignment myself.)
 

According to Mordenkeinens, the elves are originally Celestial. The mercurial shapechanging of their parent came with instability and neglect as a parent. The parent banished them in a domestic dispute. From the Celestial Domain, they immigrated to the Fey Plane and to the Material Plane. The elves in the Fey Plane have no intention of returning, but many in the Material Plane still seek to reunite with their parent as Celestials.

Some of the Fey Elves have would prefer to become Archfey, but I don't think it's stated as a goal of all of them.

5e Elves basically stole their back story from Gnostism, Elves are literally bits of Corellon Larethian the Supreme Elven God that got trapped in the material universe thanks to Lolth (as Demiurge) and the rest of the Dark Selderine (Archons).
 

Some of the Fey Elves have would prefer to become Archfey, but I don't think it's stated as a goal of all of them.

5e Elves basically stole their back story from Gnostism, Elves are literally bits of Corellon Larethian the Supreme Elven God that got trapped in the material universe thanks to Lolth (as Demiurge) and the rest of the Dark Selderine (Archons).
that makes elves so much better and could really help bulk them up in none Tolkien ways.
 

For me,

• Lawful=Group
• Chaotic=Individual

So it is easy for me to imagine what the angels are about. The Lawful Good are about a just society and the Chaotic Good are about benevolent freedom and self-actualization. Neutral Good is pure Good, doing whatever it takes, whether via group or individual, to optimize for the maximum Good possible in any particular situation.

I see more Lawful being order and authority while Chaotic being more freedom and personal responsibility.

It occurs to me a way to explain Chaotic Good Angels in past editions is that a Lawful Good Angel of a Chaotic deity is going to treat their God's word as the highest authority/law so while they will go about it lawfully, their actions will still appear to be Chaotic because while they are lawfully obeying orders, the orders themselves are Chaotic.
 

I see more Lawful being order and authority while Chaotic being more freedom and personal responsibility.

It occurs to me a way to explain Chaotic Good Angels in past editions is that a Lawful Good Angel of a Chaotic deity is going to treat their God's word as the highest authority/law so while they will go about it lawfully, their actions will still appear to be Chaotic because while they are lawfully obeying orders, the orders themselves are Chaotic.
I assume cg celestials work with CG gods out of respect and admiration for what they do and is a fairly mutual relationship.

both types of law and chaotic seem fairly complimentary in what they do.
 

MechaTarrasque

Adventurer
I see more Lawful being order and authority while Chaotic being more freedom and personal responsibility.

It occurs to me a way to explain Chaotic Good Angels in past editions is that a Lawful Good Angel of a Chaotic deity is going to treat their God's word as the highest authority/law so while they will go about it lawfully, their actions will still appear to be Chaotic because while they are lawfully obeying orders, the orders themselves are Chaotic.
I tend to think of angels serving CG gods as being like Jeeves butlering to Bertie. Even if the Master (or Mistress) is seemingly incapable of being respectable, they (the angels) will do their best to bring them there. As long as the angels aren't too overbearing, the CG gods appreciate the efficiency (and handling of things that the gods don't want to deal with) of the angels, and occasionally, like Bertie, they put their feet down (although much like a Jeeves novel, the angels often get their way in the end).
 

I tend to think of angels serving CG gods as being like Jeeves butlering to Bertie. Even if the Master (or Mistress) is seemingly incapable of being respectable, they (the angels) will do their best to bring them there. As long as the angels aren't too overbearing, the CG gods appreciate the efficiency (and handling of things that the gods don't want to deal with) of the angels, and occasionally, like Bertie, they put their feet down (although much like a Jeeves novel, the angels often get their way in the end).

I don't know who these characters are.
 

MechaTarrasque

Adventurer
Easy to avoid, just don't do an Angel of Hate.
You could use Muses as an overarching term for chaotics (like fiends for evil), with the idea that muses are trying to inspire mortals to think or act "big." Demons (evil muses) inspire people to evil acts (and thus a demon fills the role of "angel of hate"), CN muses inspire to act "big" regardless of whether the consequences are good or evil (romantic love would be a good fit, since it could lead to creepy stalker stuff or true love), and good muses (celestial eladrin?) could inspire people to impressive acts of goodness (like giving away your fortune to charity or joining a dangerous quest to save a kingdom).
 

I assume cg celestials work with CG gods out of respect and admiration for what they do and is a fairly mutual relationship.

both types of law and chaotic seem fairly complimentary in what they do.

In 5e none Fallen Angels are always Lawful Good, even the ones who serve Chaotic Good Gods, the point was to explore what its like to be a LG Angel created by and from a Chaotic Good God to serve them, while comparing them to Chaotic Good Angels from the past when they could be Chaotic Good.

My point was a Lawful Good Angel in service to a Chaotic Good God could behave in a completely Lawful way that would still appear to be Chaotic to an outsider, because the orders/laws of their God are Chaotic, but they are still obeying the holy word of their God, which would be a Lawful act as the God is their rightful boss.
 

You could use Muses as an overarching term for chaotics (like fiends for evil), with the idea that muses are trying to inspire mortals to think or act "big." Demons (evil muses) inspire people to evil acts (and thus a demon fills the role of "angel of hate"), CN muses inspire to act "big" regardless of whether the consequences are good or evil (romantic love would be a good fit, since it could lead to creepy stalker stuff or true love), and good muses (celestial eladrin?) could inspire people to impressive acts of goodness (like giving away your fortune to charity or joining a dangerous quest to save a kingdom).
interesting
In 5e none Fallen Angels are always Lawful Good, even the ones who serve Chaotic Good Gods, the point was to explore what its like to be a LG Angel created by and from a Chaotic Good God to serve them, while comparing them to Chaotic Good Angels from the past when they could be Chaotic Good.

My point was a Lawful Good Angel in service to a Chaotic Good God could behave in a completely Lawful way that would still appear to be Chaotic to an outsider, because the orders/laws of their God are Chaotic, but they are still obeying the holy word of their God, which would be a Lawful act as the God is their rightful boss.
that could work but I want more none angle outsiders as I have a dislike of angels.
 

MechaTarrasque

Adventurer
I don't know who these characters are.
Jeeves the Butler was the main character in a series of comedy books from 1915 to 1974. These books are the literary ancestor of sitcoms. The very lawful Jeeves is the butler to his well-meaning but muddle-headed master Bertie Wooster (who leans chaotic). A common theme of the books is that Jeeves disapproves of some garish clothing that Bertie has acquired, Bertie asserts his right to wear whatever he pleases, Bertie gets into a jam (often involving getting engaged against his will), Jeeves finds a way to solve the problem, and Bertie destroys the offending clothing in thanks. The books are good, and there was a TV series staring Stephen Fry and Hugh Laurie that I would also recommend.
 

You could use Muses as an overarching term for chaotics (like fiends for evil), with the idea that muses are trying to inspire mortals to think or act "big." Demons (evil muses) inspire people to evil acts (and thus a demon fills the role of "angel of hate"), CN muses inspire to act "big" regardless of whether the consequences are good or evil (romantic love would be a good fit, since it could lead to creepy stalker stuff or true love), and good muses (celestial eladrin?) could inspire people to impressive acts of goodness (like giving away your fortune to charity or joining a dangerous quest to save a kingdom).

The Gracies (Charities) would be Thematically broader then Muses who are only concerned with different types of art.
 

Urriak Uruk

Debate fuels my Fire
You could use Muses as an overarching term for chaotics (like fiends for evil), with the idea that muses are trying to inspire mortals to think or act "big." Demons (evil muses) inspire people to evil acts (and thus a demon fills the role of "angel of hate"), CN muses inspire to act "big" regardless of whether the consequences are good or evil (romantic love would be a good fit, since it could lead to creepy stalker stuff or true love), and good muses (celestial eladrin?) could inspire people to impressive acts of goodness (like giving away your fortune to charity or joining a dangerous quest to save a kingdom).

The Furies from Hades do look a bit like fallen angels.

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cbwjm

Hero
In my current setting, I'm drawing on 4e lore which has angels serving all the gods, not just the good ones. Each angel reflects the god they worship with the archangels/solars taking on an aspect of their god's domain. I have a god of corruption and undeath, his angels do not look pretty. The angels that follow the god of the sun though, shine with his radiance. If the Stag King (god of wyld places and the hunt) has angels, they are likely to be similar to elves in appearance, though I suspect that he might prefer to have powerful eladrin as his proxies.

The Angels themselves are created by the gods and are a step down from the celestial race that spawned the gods with only the archangels being on par with them (think of Marvel comics' Asgard. Most asgardians are powerful but not at the same power as the main gods like Thor, Hela, or Odin). I could probably come up with a tier list of other planar beings and their relative power levels.
 

To better illustrate my point picture an angel of Tymora whose ordered to roll a D20 seven times and for each 20 to give a mortal 200 gold, for each 19-2 a sack of candy, and for each 1 an apple. This is a Chaotic Good order from a Chaotic Goddess of Luck to a Lawful Good Angel she created.

This Angel, let's call her Casino, has two opinions, to obey and to disobey, but her choice is distracted by her Lawful Good nature to take the most Lawful Good choice.

If Casino refuses she has ignored her place in the divine hierarchy, defied her rightful authority figure, refused to do an act of good, and violated spiritual law by refusing her Goddess. This is Chaotic Neutral act at best, perhaps even Chaotic Evil even, even if it's driven by distaste for a Chaotic act of charity by random chance.

But if Casino obeys she is obeying divine law, respecting her place in the divine hierarchy, respecting her "Mother" and serving the words of her God and helping those in need, acting with generosity. It's both a Lawful and Chaotic act at the same time, but it's lawfulness far outweighs is chaoticness.

Another example The Angel Kitten, servant of Sharess is ordered to seduce lonely mortals, but the Kingdom has a law against sex with beings from outside the material plane and so to do so she has to violate human laws. (this also assumes Kitten consents and wants to do this because there is nothing inheritance unlawful about sex, and she still shares in the none unlawful elements of Sharess' own nature)

Sharess is the Goddess who created Kitten, her word is divine law, which in the hierarchy of laws is higher then mortal laws, so obeying Sharess is a Lawful act despite violating human laws, because it respects both a higher moral form of law, divine law, and respects the hierarchy of laws, respects the authority of Sharess, and it avoids disobeying her mistress so a Chaotic act is avoided. There for breaking the human law is the Lawful Good act, but it appears to be a Chaotic act to an outsider.

The most Lawful Good act is to always obey the more moral and hierarchical authority over a lesser authority, especially if its the authority of one's God the highest authority to an Angel vs the Authority of anything else. Only true universal Chaotic evil acts would trump this as then disobedience becomes the less Chaotic less evil act.
 

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