Annoyed with D&D Game Day Characters

[Glyfair]

And I think the usual marketing gimmicks of free pens/stickers/t-shirts just fall short.

I found the free miniatures quiet acceptable. I'll note that the instructions for game day doesn't say what to do with the miniatures used for the adventure. I was lucky in that we only had one table at my venue (we ended up with enough players for two tables, but the timing was off to get two games going). So, I took a package of the miniatures, broke open the other bags and had the players draft from the miniatures. Everyone took home a haul.

Quite. And it was a good suggestion then, too. The difference is, next year we should actually do it.

I'm not sure we should wait. Maybe we should start planning now.

If we do wait, I think a good compromise would be to find a recent Dungeon adventure (or other quality, appropriate adventure that can be easily obtained) and make that the "ENWorld Default" and create appropriate, well designed colorful characters for it.

 

[delericho]

I'm not sure we should wait. Maybe we should start planning now.

The advantage of waiting is that it gives Wizards a chance to not mess it up again next year. And, if they were to get it right, I think the advantages of a 'shared experience' would be highly beneficial.

That said, if we do wait, we'd probably forget, and find ourselves complaining about bad pregen characters again next year. And, since it's better to have something available and not need it than to need it and not have it, I think going ahead would be a good idea. Let's just not forget where we store the thing once it's done, shall we?

So, where to start? Am I right in thinking that the ideal adventure is, indeed, the 'iconic' D&D experience, which is to say a low-level dungeon crawl with treasure to be found? If so, shall we say 4th level?

(I base the level on the idea that 4th level is high enough to not be excessively fragile, and that the first true complexities enter the game at 5th with the Fly spell. Not that that's particularly complex, mind, but it's slightly harder than that which has come before)

If we're talking four hours, that's what? Six encounters (three combat, a trap, a roleplay, and a 'special')? Or is that too many? Too few?

On reflection, I agree with Dannyalcatraz's suggestion that we should have plenty of PreGens available, although perhaps with the recommendation that the DM should guide newbie players to the 'easier' choices.

So, what do you think?

 

[Glyfair]

So, where to start?

Probably time for a new thread on this side discussion.

One thought hit me, though. If enough people are interested, and willing to put up some money for an interesting project, maybe we could convice Wolfgang Bauer to make a 3rd Custom Adventure specifically for the 2007 Worldwide D&D Gameday. We'd have to, as a group, meet his go ahead price. However, he certainly has the chops to give us an adventure that could become inconic, especially with out input as patrons.

 

[schporto]

I know a lot of folks are complaining about the pregens, and they were ummm, 'not good'. But I think the adventure was dang harsh. While there are reports (mixed) of making it, or not, I think there should be more made it throughs then TPKs. Experienced players should not be required to beat the module.
The first encounter we had was against the dread warriors. These things were hitting for about 20hp each time. Each hit was a cure mod from the cleric, who only had 4.
The hell cat at the end, after everything else was just harsh.
I kinda wish there was a bit more ease. None of the encounters let you go 'ohh this is gonna be fun/easy'. Every so often you need one like that to keep players' hope up.
It must be said though - it was fun and that was the important part.
-cpd

 

[delericho]

I know a lot of folks are complaining about the pregens, and they were ummm, 'not good'. But I think the adventure was dang harsh. While there are reports (mixed) of making it, or not, I think there should be more made it throughs then TPKs. Experienced players should not be required to beat the module.

There's a whole lot of truth in that. The thing is, now we've been playing for years, we know lots of 'tricks' - prepare this spell and this spell, and combine them with that feat, and you get a big boost; fight-retreat-rest, and so on - which mean that an encounter of CR = Party level is not really an appropriate challenge any more.

But, if you stick newbie players in there, they don't have that experience. Suddenly, those orcs that the experienced players laughed at become scary and threatening (to the character at least).

But, how do you adjust for not knowing whether there will be experienced players in the group, and how best do you cater to both groups?

Perhaps the answer is to design the adventure assuming newbie players, but also include guidelines for adjusting the adventure for more experienced players (which can be as simple as 'give the orcs bows, and have them use the available cover'). Throw in a couple of 'easter eggs' designed specifically to appeal to experienced players ("That's the heraldic device of the Frost Giant Jarl"). And make sure all the PreGen characters are designed so that they're just fun to play, make sure they each bring something to the group that no other character quite does, and explain their abilities as clearly as possible.

(Also, if possible, the DM should try to speak to the experienced players beforehand, and ask them to not overshadow the newbies. Promise to run them through a tougher adventure later, or something )

 

[Glyfair]

Perhaps the answer is to design the adventure assuming newbie players, but also include guidelines for adjusting the adventure for more experienced players (which can be as simple as 'give the orcs bows, and have them use the available cover').

I say design the adventure for newbie players (you can assume competent newbie, though), and give roleplaying encounters for the experienced players. Yes, that means it's a bit boring for an experienced non-roleplaying oriented player, but you can use personally designed adventures if your crowd is heavy with them.

 

[skinnydwarf]

<SNIP>
It must be said though - it was fun and that was the important part.
-cpd

My party got TPK'd by the Hellcat, but I still had a blast. When we fought the wizard and the lava monster, the wizard escaped, and we healed up before going after him. Unfortunately, he got a web ready, and many of us got stuck in the web while the hellcat made mincemeat of us. My ranger managed to escape to the rooms behind the bars, but then got mauled by the undead there, and finished off by the hellcat and wizard once they caught up to me.

Sure, the pre-gens were unoptimized. Maybe a little too unoptimized (the Paladin, as was mentioned before in the thread). I don't think the characters should have been optimized for the adventure, but they could have been a little better. My Ranger had 7 ranks in ride. A useful skill, but I could have used some more ranks in hide. That being said, the fact that the characters were not really optimized made the adventure harder.

I think that the fact that the adventure was so difficult really gives the players who survived it, with no losses (as another group at my venue accomplished), some bragging rights. I only wish my party had made it.

 

[megamania]

One- The idea of Gameday is to introduce new players AND let existing players meet each other that may not have known of each other. It also can allow for creative outlets for a DM whom wants to run a one shot that is different from his norm.

Now, Besides that, I have gone to but one Gameday and I provided characters for everyone. I do list all feats and a one sentence breakdown of their use. The same for spells and Special abilities (racial, spell-like and magic items)

I only read the first three or four posts so if this is addressed already sorry.

CHILL! Its a game. If uncertain of something ask the DM. Its not a big deal.

 

[genshou]

I guess my group was the only one to win it with no losses? Apparently half the group died with the same GM in playtest.

Same experience here. The Paladin player was an experienced DM and told me outright that if he plays this character outside the Gameday he'll switch Wisdom and Charisma and change the armour to nonmagical full plate, but nobody ever went unconscious in my session. The final fight did drop him to 4 hit points, but nobody went unconscious and had to use their card.

In the test session I ran on IRC, the party ran out of spells halfway through.
[sblock]This occurred right after the fight with the flameskull and terror wight. In both games the player of the Wizard was wise enough to change prepared spells and have enlarge person, which greatly helped the Fighters in both games to defeat the flameskull. +12 bonus to grapple checks? Yes please! In the Gameday playing of the adventure, the enlarged Fighter cleaved through the terror wight in one blow thanks to Power Attack, and then grappled the turned flameskull and bashed it against the wall until it broke [/sblock]

 

[Twin Rose]

I would hardly call it a "failure". I saw about 30 people completely amped up about D&D - from newbies, to old grogs, to military guys on leave. The retail owner was really amped, and he even participated in a game. I saw people getting their wives into D&D, and having fun.

I saw people leaving their numbers on the board, forming new groups, joining existing ones. (I got invited by a few people to join a wedneday night Wilderlands group, which I'm very tempted to accept if I can work out the logistics).

It just came off, despite the annoyance of the bad characters and rough adventure, as a good time had by all ... And people wanting to further that experience. I was very glad to see it.