D&D 5E (2014) Another Fighter: the "Heroic" Fighter

[DND_Reborn]

UPDATE: Added a first draft of the Tactician martial archetype to the OP. Some of the features are probably OP, but that is why it is a draft LOL!

 

[Guest 7034872]

UPDATE: Added a first draft of the Tactician martial archetype to the OP. Some of the features are probably OP, but that is why it is a draft LOL!

That was Aristotle's exact advice in the Nichomachean Ethics: initially aim for overkill, then dial it back as needed.

 

[DND_Reborn]

That was Aristotle's exact advice in the Nichomachean Ethics: initially aim for overkill, then dial it back as needed.

Pretty much my approach to all my homebrew. Unfortunately, people can sometimes over react before the discussion to dial it back ensues.

 

[DND_Reborn]

UPDATE: Added a first draft of the Frontiersman martial archetype to the OP. Some of the features are probably OP, again...

 

[Guest 7034872]

"Nature's Child" looks really powerful! And no, by that I do not mean it's OP; I mean I have no idea yet whether it's OP or not, but I really like it.

 

[DND_Reborn]

"Nature's Child" looks really powerful! And no, by that I do not mean it's OP; I mean I have no idea yet whether it's OP or not, but I really like it.

LOL thanks! It will probably get changed to:

You can spend one or more Maneuver dice using your reaction to decrease the damage you take from the chosen type by an amount equal to the dice total.

But for now, I'm starting with immunity.

Also, I am glad you wrote, it reminded me to add in the level distinctions for when you get all the features!

 

[NotAYakk]

Second Wind:
Low impact abilities you can use often suck.

Instead of more uses, make it give (fighter level)/2 (min 1, round down) d10 + fighter level HP.

This ensures that its use remains substantial at all levels, not substantial at level 1, then rounding error by level 10.

Action Surge:
To make this not be worse than baseline fighter, you need at least 2 action surges at level 5, and 3 by level 11, 6 by level 17 and 8 by level 20.

Yours falls behind the baseline at level 5, 11 and 12, and 17+.

"You can use more than one" makes the 6/8 scale a bit much. Also, the optional use is almost always "use them all at once", which sort of sucks.

I might suggest that Action Surge gives you both a weapon attack and another (non-spellcasting) action, at least by some point? Or even an action from a menu (use an object, dash, disengage, dodge, help, hide, search).

The number of attacks you get on an Action Surge can scale (separately from extra attack). So L 2 (1 use) L 5 (2 uses), L 11 (2 attacks on action surge), L 17 (3 uses), L 20 (3 attacks per action surge). And limit it to 1 action surge/turn.

That gives you (per short rest) this many extra attacks (baseline/heroic)
L2: 1 in 1 round/1 in 1 round
L5: 2 in 1 round/2 in 2 rounds
L11: 3 in 1 round/4 in 2 rounds
L17: 6 in 2 rounds/6 in 3 rounds
L20: 8 in 2 rounds/9 in 3 rounds

The non-action benefits you forgot to specify duration. I'd just roll those benefits in for free; when you spend an action surge, your jump distance and carry capacity doubles until the start of your next turn.

Indomidable:
A trick I have used is to grant resistance to damage on top of the save benefits.

Like:
When hit with an attack or when you fail a saving throw, you can spend a use of Indomidable to cause the attack or saving throw to be rerolled.

If you take damage from that spell or effect, you have resistance to the damage.

Maneuver Dice You only get 1?

 

[DND_Reborn]

UPDATE: Added a first draft of the Warlord (Marshall?) martial archetype to the OP. Probably way OP... but maybe its a start.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Second Wind:
Low impact abilities you can use often suck.

Instead of more uses, make it give (fighter level)/2 (min 1, round down) d10 + fighter level HP.

This ensures that its use remains substantial at all levels, not substantial at level 1, then rounding error by level 10.

I get your point on this feature, but it is meant to be helpful, not a replacement for more powerful healing IMO.

I thought about allowing you to spend more than one use at a time, like with Action Surge, but even that is really strong healing I think, at a maximum of 4d10+80 hp at 20th level.

Action Surge:
To make this not be worse than baseline fighter, you need at least 2 action surges at level 5, and 3 by level 11, 6 by level 17 and 8 by level 20.

Yours falls behind the baseline at level 5, 11 and 12, and 17+.

"You can use more than one" makes the 6/8 scale a bit much. Also, the optional use is almost always "use them all at once", which sort of sucks.

I might suggest that Action Surge gives you both a weapon attack and another (non-spellcasting) action, at least by some point? Or even an action from a menu (use an object, dash, disengage, dodge, help, hide, search).

The number of attacks you get on an Action Surge can scale (separately from extra attack). So L 2 (1 use) L 5 (2 uses), L 11 (2 attacks on action surge), L 17 (3 uses), L 20 (3 attacks per action surge). And limit it to 1 action surge/turn.

That gives you (per short rest) this many extra attacks (baseline/heroic)
L2: 1 in 1 round/1 in 1 round
L5: 2 in 1 round/2 in 2 rounds
L11: 3 in 1 round/4 in 2 rounds
L17: 6 in 2 rounds/6 in 3 rounds
L20: 8 in 2 rounds/9 in 3 rounds

I am trying to keep it simpler than that, and losing 1 attack during a handful of levels via Action Surge is worth the greater versatility it provides IMO.

The non-action benefits you forgot to specify duration. I'd just roll those benefits in for free; when you spend an action surge, your jump distance and carry capacity doubles until the start of your next turn.

Considering the Action Surge is just for your turn, I thought it would be implied that the benefits only last for your turn, but you are right I should probably be more explicit given the nature of 5E.

Indomidable:
A trick I have used is to grant resistance to damage on top of the save benefits.

Like:
When hit with an attack or when you fail a saving throw, you can spend a use of Indomidable to cause the attack or saving throw to be rerolled.

If you take damage from that spell or effect, you have resistance to the damage.

That isn't a bad idea either and I'll add it to the suggestions in the OP. Thanks!

Maneuver Dice You only get 1?

You must have missed it. You get a number of dice equal to your proficiency bonus and regain expended dice on a short or long rest.

See?

 

[NotAYakk]

I get your point on this feature, but it is meant to be helpful, not a replacement for more powerful healing IMO.

I thought about allowing you to spend more than one use at a time, like with Action Surge, but even that is really strong healing I think, at a maximum of 4d10+80 hp at 20th level.

So, yours is 102 HP/short rest over 4 uses. My problem is each use is dramatically junk. Your HP barely move past low levels when you use it.

At low levels? 6.5 HP at level 1 is a huge swing. A level 1 fighter with 14 con has 12 HP, so 6.5 is half their HP bar. That feels like something worth mentioning at the table. By level 10, 15.5 HP is something you don't even bother saying. Level so, 25.5 is similarly anemic.

Mine (level/2 d10 + level) at level 20 is 75 HP. This is less than your 102, but instead of being an anemic event on every use, it is a dramatic turn around moment; a level 20 fighter with 16 con has 184 HP. 75 HP is 40% of their HP, a significant swing.

Meanwhile, 25 HP is 13%, you can barely see that on a visual HP bar.

Activated abilities should have impact when activated. This is not really a balance concern, but rather a gameplay concern.

I am trying to keep it simpler than that, and losing 1 attack during a handful of levels via Action Surge is worth the greater versatility it provides IMO.

Action Surge is the single most powerful fighter ability. Making it worse isn't a great plan.

Versatility means very little if your options suck compared to the alternative. In fact, your action surge is better for non-fighters than it is for fighters, because non-fighter action economy doesn't rely on Extra Attack.

Heck, get a cantrip and your fighters action surge extra attack becomes less anemic. Let alone the use for a spellcasters, who can still dip fighter 2 and get 2 full spells out of it. Meanwhile, the fighter gets a half-attack action (or worse).

You must have missed it. You get a number of dice equal to your proficiency bonus and regain expended dice on a short or long rest.

See?
View attachment 151985

Ah. I assume then you aren't trying to balance for multiclassing?

Because a fighter 2 dip gives action surge (great for spellcasters) and up to 6 short rest 1d4 precision attacks.

...

Possibly you are valuing versatility highly? I mean, "more fighting styles" is being treated as an important feature, not as a ribbon, seems to indicate you are. ("More picks from same list" almost always means that the 2nd pick is worse than the first. Sometimes you can manage synergy that wouldn't otherwise exist; the only one I'm aware of in fighting styles is archery + dueling with a thrown weapon.

Getting utility fighting styles like blindfighting and the like is fun, or interception to use your reaction, but there isn't super-linear synergy here.)


...

Oh, nevermind, page 2 with "leveled up fighting styles". I'd ditch your "get more fighting styles" system, and just have fighter fighting styles level up with fighter level. If you also want to give more fighting styles, great. This also patches over a multiclass exploit (getting earlier access to those than a fighter does by dipping paladin/ranger 2 or the like).