Another Grappling Question

[Ikonoklast]

During our game last night we had a few questions that I couldn't find rulings for

1. If you win a grapple on an opponent's Init can you choose to do something on the chart. (ie. Damage, Pin, break grapple).

2. Under the "Other Grappling Options" section in the PHB pg137 it says you can cast spells. Do you have to make an opposed grapple check to do any of these options. If you loose the grapple can you still do these options.

3. When you are grappling and try to cast a Silent and Stilled spell do you still have to make the concentration check.

4. If you cast a Silent and Stilled spell do you still occur an AOO

5. If a fighter has a redied action to attack a Caster when he casts a spell, but the spell if Silent and Stilled does he still get the attack. Because the fighter cant tell that a spell is being cast.

 

[whatisitgoodfor]

1) No, you have to use one of your own attacks to perform a grappling action.

2)No, if you lose the grapple check you spend your action trying to free yourself up enough to cast the spell, not casting the spell.

3)Yes, the concentration check simply replaces the attack of oppertunity that you would normally provoke. Since casting a still silent spell provokes and AoO, then you still have to make the concentration check. Basically, you are forced to cast the spell defensively, if I'm remebering the DC's correctly.

4)Yes, casting a spell with no components would follow the same rules as using a spell like ability, and both provoke attacks of oppertunity.

5)The fighter can still see the look of concentration that comes across the caster's face when he casts the spell.

As a house rule, though, you might want to consider requiring a Sense Motive check to notice it.

 

[Hypersmurf]

1. If you win a grapple on an opponent's Init can you choose to do something on the chart. (ie. Damage, Pin, break grapple).

No. You can only take those actions on your initiative. By winning the opposed check on your opponent's action, you smply prevent him from doing any of those things.

2. Under the "Other Grappling Options" section in the PHB pg137 it says you can cast spells. Do you have to make an opposed grapple check to do any of these options. If you loose the grapple can you still do these options.

You don't need to make a grapple check to attack someone with a light weapon, cast a spell, or attempt to wriggle free... unless you're pinned. If pinned, you must spend an action to attempt to break the pin first.

3. When you are grappling and try to cast a Silent and Stilled spell do you still have to make the concentration check.

Yes. In fact, most spells require Still Spell to be used while grappling - you can only cast spells with no Somatic (S) component. There aren't that many that naturally have no S component, so usually you have to Still them.

Bear in mind that another requirement is a casting time of no more than 1 action... so Sorcerers can't use Still Spell while grappled.

Any casting while grappled - Still or no Still - requires a DC20 + spell level Concentration check.

4. If you cast a Silent and Stilled spell do you still occur an AOO

Yes. Unless you're Casting Defensively.

5. If a fighter has a redied action to attack a Caster when he casts a spell, but the spell if Silent and Stilled does he still get the attack. Because the fighter cant tell that a spell is being cast.

Yes, because the spell still requires an intense look of concentration that's identifiable as spellcasting.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

2)No, if you lose the grapple check you spend your action trying to free yourself up enough to cast the spell, not casting the spell.

I disagree there.

Opposed Grapple Checks are used to a/ Deal Grappling damage; b/ Pin; c/ Break a Pin; or d/ Escape.

Weapons, Spells, or Wriggle Free come after the statement "In addition to making opposed grapple checks, you have a few other options while grappling".

If someone has a hideous AC, but a poor grapple modifier, you're better off trying to deal grapple damage - essentially, their "armor class" is their grapple check.

If someone has a really high grapple modifier, but an average AC, you're better off using a dagger, because you likely will lose opposed grapple checks, but you can still make attacks while grappling with the dagger. By the rules, you could even punch them in this situation instead of trying to deal grappling damage. In this situation, though, you'd better hope they don't have multiple attacks... 'cos they'll just pin you every round and use their other attacks to whomp on you.

-Hyp.

 

[whatisitgoodfor]

Doh!!!

Just looked again, and you were right hypersmurf.

There is no grapple check necessary to make weapon attacks or cast spells while grappling.

 

[whatisitgoodfor]

Stop posting while I'm typing Smurf!

 

[Xahn'Tyr]

My best guesses would be:
-If you win, you just keep the opponent from doing something bad.

-You don't need to make a grapple check except to do grapple damage, pin, or escape.

-You have to concentrate to cast a Silent/Still spell just like you would a spell with no verbal/somatic components.

-DM's call. I would give it to the fighter because the mage must still stand still and focus for a few seconds. Heck, I'd give the fighter the attack even if the mage just "pretended" to start a spell. His life is on the line here so if that mage does anything that could even remotely look like the first stages of spellcasting, he is going to swing.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Heck, I'd give the fighter the attack even if the mage just "pretended" to start a spell. His life is on the line here so if that mage does anything that could even remotely look like the first stages of spellcasting, he is going to swing.

Unless the mage was using the "Bluff" skill to feint. Through the Quicker than the Eye feat or otherwise.

-Hyp.