Another MV preview: Hurly Burly brothers

[jeffh]

I'm just reading these previews now - they're not linked from anywhere that I can tell except the main D&D front page, so I was unaware of their existence until now despite actively looking for such things! - and the Vestapalk one seems poorly edited as well ("Birth" when "Breath" is obviously intended in the stat block, "neither would scarcely admit it" near the end of the text). Haven't gotten to the others. I hope these proofs weren't the final ones, and that they managed to squeeze in one last editing pass before being committed to the version going to print.

 

[Aegeri]

In fairness Vestapulk and this one are the weakest of the previews. The Wandering Tower was just amazing. One of the two best pages published in 4E in a monster book. Filled with delicious fluffy goodness with the mechanical crunch to seal together all those elements in an incredibly fun way. I don't even know how to praise that more than I already have. The Hound of Ill Omen was very fun looking and solid as well. The Fell Court had a very strangely out of whack power wise Lurker, but otherwise were really nicely designed and nothing just using it at a higher level wouldn't solve.

It's on my "Must Buy" list for sure anyway. Every book even MM3, has the odd dud monster anyway and so it's okay for some to be pretty underwhelming.

 

[Pickles JG]

They need an at-will range attack so they can help one another while not shutting off their Bond in Blood (as fluffed version). Short range so parties with limited movement tricks still have a hope.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Agreed. I've been really impressed by every other preview so far; enough so that Nentir Vale is an auto-buy for me.

But this particular monster has three problems: 1) the Bound by Blood mechanic is misworded (simple enough to correct - the flavor text makes the intent very clear); 2) the brothers aren't different enough from a regular troll to be very interesting; 3) they lack sufficient options for a near-paragon elite challenge. Another couple powers, or more differentiation from a regular troll, would have made all the difference.

Again, with an XP budget of 800 (x2) they are not meant to be near paragon challenges, i guess.

I think they make a great challenge for 1600 xp (about a level 7 encounter). As brutes, they work great as a hard challenge at level 4 or 5 i guess. Or a single Troll could be used against a party of level 2 or 3, only to find the same troll and his brother living again some levels later.
The simple design is a good thing in my opinion.

As I stated before, those trolls are nearly exactly how I design my brutes from standard monsters...
I only share Aegeri´s view, when he says, that they are less threatening than 4 standard monsters, as the single target damage is only that of a standard monster, and the multi target attack deals less damage...
when I create those brutes, the burst attack usually the same damage as the standard monster had at this level and i increase the single target damage by 5 or so...
... but i guess melee 2 on a large monster makes that burst huge, and beeing a brute that has high damage and can compensate for low armor with regeneration could make them more than viable.

(Those kind of elites work very well in my game, btw.)

 

[Aegeri]

I am finding right now that having one as a mobile ranged skirmisher like stat block and the other as a brute makes this quite an interesting concept. I also gave them a few powers that interact in an interesting manner. So much so, that I will actually use this concept in my own game and see how it goes. There is so much you can do with this that the stat block in the actual book just doesn't live up to the potential of.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I am finding right now that having one as a mobile ranged skirmisher like stat block and the other as a brute makes this quite an interesting concept. I also gave them a few powers that interact in an interesting manner. So much so, that I will actually use this concept in my own game and see how it goes. There is so much you can do with this that the stat block in the actual book just doesn't live up to the potential of.

Totally agree with that... but i guess the 2 of them will work... maybe one of them was really cut... on the picture, one has a single handed sword...

 

[Zaran]

I think they are supposed to be considered 1 elite monster total and not 2. So by themselves they would be worth 400 xp each. This gives them the double attacks of an elite and makes them a bit more interesting for their encounter value.

 

[MrMyth]

Have to chime in here on good concept, poor execution. The mistake in Bound by Blood undercuts their primary appeal. The single stat block makes it unclear if each is a level 9 elite, or if they are intended to be a combined level 9 elite. The lack of unique abilities to distinguish the two brothers.

I'm confident I can take the concept and draw up some proper stats to do it justice, but yeah, something of a disappointment considered how outstanding the rest of the book has been.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

They are definitively not 1 elite together. Standard brute stats.

The close burst is his double (or triple attack) 800xp for both of them together would be too hard.

Actually, when you face them alone, at level 3-7, 4 cleave attacks (tith action points) could well bloody the complete party in round 1. Their regeneration may hold them in battle longer than usual brutes. Burst 2 on large monsters is a 32 square area attack!

edit: the standard troll also does realtively low damage for a brute (just average 18.5 where it should have 17+17/4 = 21.25), but has a triggered double attack... Maybe if you add the triggered extra attack to the brothers back again, you will have a deadly enough threat...

 

[renau1g]

I think they are supposed to be considered 1 elite monster total and not 2. So by themselves they would be worth 400 xp each. This gives them the double attacks of an elite and makes them a bit more interesting for their encounter value.

I thought this myself. Also, if they were 1 elite creature, there'd only be 1 action point between them so they couldn't launch 4 attacks. Plus, in most fights when the monsters launch their "alpha" strikes at the start of combat they typically do bloody the PC's. I tend not to do these attacks though as it's too easy for the PC's to recover from. I try to hold AP's in reserve for an opportunity to drop a PC instead.