Another Spring Attack Question

[MeanGenes]

I'm gonna disagree with everyone now...

According to the FAQ, it says that you CAN move before or after an attack and not draw an AOO from that opponent. It says you CAN, not you MUST. This allows you to avoid AOOs from reach weapons when moving in to attack, attack and retreat without drawing an AOO, and maneuver around an opponent (into flanking position for instance) without drawing an AOO as long as you make an attack against the opponent during your attack action. This may sound like a lot of benefits for one feat, and normally I'd agree with that assessment. However, to do all of the above you must also spend 2 feats (on dodge and mobility) that IMO would best be spent elsewhere if they were not part of the spring attack chain. Also, a 5th level rogue with a maxxed tumble skill (8 ranks + 4 [dex] + 2 [synergy] = 14) would be able to do everything above except move before and after attacks at will. However, the rogue gets to avoid AOOs from all opponents, whereas the spring attacker only avoids an AOO from just one opponent. IMO, the feat as defined by the sage is balanced.

 

[Artoomis]

Can you use Spring Attack while charging? For example, could you charge 20', attack and opponent, and then retreat 40' (if you had a base 30' move)?

I am inclined to rule against, but since you can use Spring Attack as part of an Attack (under which is Charge), I can see the argument for both sides.

Anybody with any clarification?

Thanks!

According to the Sage, yes, you can charge and Spring Attack, but all movement has to be in a straight line. This gives you a dismounted ride-by attack.

I disagree.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: I'm gonna disagree with everyone now...

According to the FAQ, it says that you CAN move before or after an attack and not draw an AOO from that opponent. It says you CAN, not you MUST.

The fact that the Sage says you don't have to move both before and after the attack has already been covered, so this isn't news, but I guess it never hurts to mention it.

This allows you to avoid AOOs from reach weapons when moving in to attack, attack and retreat without drawing an AOO, and maneuver around an opponent (into flanking position for instance) without drawing an AOO as long as you make an attack against the opponent during your attack action.

It doesn't matter if you're opponent has 10-foot reach or 20-foot reach. As long as you use the Spring Attack feat, it doesn't matter how you move, as you do not draw an AoO for movement of any kind. This is not an interpretation. This is how the feat works.

That was covered in the previous thread, but it needed to be brought up here anyways.

This may sound like a lot of benefits for one feat, and normally I'd agree with that assessment.

I don't think it's too powerful at all. I think it's just fine, even if you can officially move all at once instead of having to split up your move before and after the attack.

However, to do all of the above you must also spend 2 feats (on dodge and mobility) that IMO would best be spent elsewhere if they were not part of the spring attack chain. Also, a 5th level rogue with a maxxed tumble skill (8 ranks + 4 [dex] + 2 [synergy] = 14) would be able to do everything above except move before and after attacks at will. However, the rogue gets to avoid AOOs from all opponents, whereas the spring attacker only avoids an AOO from just one opponent. IMO, the feat as defined by the sage is balanced.

Yup. I gotta agree with ya' there.

 

[Otterscrubber]

Movement and Spring attack

Can you use Spring Attack while charging? For example, could you charge 20', attack and opponent, and then retreat 40' (if you had a base 30' move)?

One thing to keep in mind about charging and using the spring attack feat is that in the PHB it states that you can only move your movement while using this feat. So for a normal human that means you can still charge, but that you can only charge up to 30 feet if you are going to make use of this feat. You would not be able to double move to get too far past your opponent as mentioned in a previous post.

I guess that makes sense since it can be assumed you are taking other actions in order to pull off this feat and cannot move as fast as you normally would. Am I interpreting this correctly? Thoughts?

 

[Dr. Zoom]

Well, since the sage says you can use Spring Attack like a dismounted Ride-by Attack, then you would not be limited to your speed, but to double your speed. IOW, the Spring Attack feat adds to the charge action, not the other way around. You charge as normal. Spring Attack adds to this that you can move both before and after the attack and your target gets no AoO against you. All you movement still must be in a straight line, too, so you cannot charge and back off. You charge and keep going in the same direction.

 

[kreynolds]

Well, since the sage says you can use Spring Attack like a dismounted Ride-by Attack

I wasn't aware he said that. Happen to know the source?

 

[Jens]

If the rule is that I must move-attack-move to benefit from SA, what happens if I Spring Attack a lone Ogre from 15' away, drop it and decide not to spring away from the corpse? Am I forced to move away or does the Ogre get a retroactive AoO against me? Or something more sensible?

Edit: Gotta keep smiling

 

[Dr. Zoom]

I wasn't aware he said that. Happen to know the source?

Not yet. I was referring back to Artoomis' post, who said:

According to the Sage, yes, you can charge and Spring Attack, but all movement has to be in a straight line. This gives you a dismounted ride-by attack.

 

[kreynolds]

Not yet. I was referring back to Artoomis' post, who said:

I know. I don't know where Artoomis got that either.

 

[Otterscrubber]

They are 2 separate feats.

Ride-by-Attack and Spring Attack are similar, but they are two separate feats. They are both quite specific in the amounts of movement you can take. The Ride by Attack clearly states that you can only use it while charging and that you are limited to double your movement, while the spring attack states you are limited to your movement only. I don't see this as ambiguous or in need of interpretation. If anyone has a link to a specific statement by the Sage saying different please post it, but I am betting it was a mis quote unless there is some errata on the wording of these feats.

This makes sense for mounted combat as it is easy to imagine a mounted soldier moving in, attacking and then moving away. I have a hard time picturing a melee combat where some moves in suddenly, attacks and then backs off 30 or more feet. Not impossible, but kinda silly as most poeple in melee will likely duke it out with their opponent once they get in there. I think it is clear that this feat (Spring Attack) is meant to be useful against large oppenents with reach and that is how I will be using it. So here is my interpretation for my campaign, let me know what you think.

1) Movement limited to base movement in one round

2) You have to attack to use this feat, but it doesn't matter when you move or how much as long as you follow #1 above. The wording clearly states you CAN move before and after but not that you MUST move before and after. Until I get some official word otherwise I assume this wording was put there for a reason.