Another Wall of Force question

[Sagiro]

Of course, the worst scenario is a hasted caster casting a wall of force to trap someone just after casting a continuous damage spell like cloudkill or incendiary cloud.

The thought has occurred to me!

-Sagiro

 

[The_lone_gunman]

How about this one:

Delayed blast fireball attached to an bolt.

Truestrike and fire the bolt.

Wall of Force around the guy.

Boom, no reflex save.


Sure it's easier to just get a mage with insane DC's, but is it as stylish as this?


TLG

 

[Celestian]

With all the spells that allow saves saves and saves again to avoid I can't imagine why people actually believe that the trapping wall of force version not allowing a reflex save was anything other than a editing mistake.

I guess players should just invent invisible fireball or a sonic fireball equivilant so no one gets to save against them because you can't see it.

 

[Uller]

Perhaps the "Save: None" is a clue that it was intentional.

Sure...Wall of Ice allows a ref save....but it is a lower level spell. Wall of stone allows one, but it is a more versitile spell. I see no reason to allow a ref save to avoid entrapment by Wall of Force so long as the creature is completely enclosed(otherwise the spell fails).

Edit: What is the rationale for not allowing a ref save vs. delayed blast fireball for an entrapped character.

 

[Ferox4]

Edit: What is the rationale for not allowing a ref save vs. delayed blast fireball for an entrapped character.

No way to avoid the fire damage? Though Reflex saves against the same spell in the open do not require anything more than the 5' square you are in to be successful. I dunno.....I think I'd be inclined to allow the PC (or NPC) a save.

 

[HeavyG]

I was about to suggest that maybe the expensive component would be a balancing factor, but it seems it missed the train to 3E-Ville.

 

[twjensen]

Perhaps the "Save: None" is a clue that it was intentional.

Well, duh. But Harm also has no save and is equally debated. The point is that the text was dragged & dropped from a 2e file and perhaps never reviewed. Just because the text says something doesn't mean that someone actually t-y-p-e-d it. Or more to tho point, thought about it.

I tend to agree with the philosophy that in 3e, just about everything has a save. If it doesn't I want a *dang* good reason. The, "well, I guess it's kinda invisible" really doesn't work for me. Here we have this wildly gesticulating wizard, spittle flying from the corners of his mouth, his eyes staring intently at you as he flails his arms in a hemisphere pattern, I mean, MY character is going to duck and cover. If YOUR character wants to stand there because he can't see the spell's effect yet, well fine.

 

[Raolin Darksbane]

Actually, a wall of force should require a reflex save. If you are trying to cage an opponent, all he has to do to twart your spell is stick his arm to an edge when it is formed.

"The wall of force must be continuous and unbroken when formed. If its surface is broken by any object or creature, the spell fails."

There are reasons that forcecage is a 7th level spell.

Cheesy munchkins.

 

[gfunk]

As written, Forcecage already enjoys several powerful advantages over Wall of Force:

1) It's duration is x120 longer. A Sor/Wiz could Forcecage someone, get his full complement of spells again by resting, then open up a can of whoop-ass.

2) In the block variant of Forcecage, all six sides of the subject are blocked. Therefore, no ethereal escape and no burrowing out (a la' Xorn movment).

3) In the cage variant of Forcecage, if you trap a powerful melee foe (e.g. Giant) then you can blast him through the bars with impunity and laugh.

The lack of saving throw in Wall of Force has stood, despite a second printing and errata of the PHB. I wouldn't hold my breath for a reprieve from Wizards. After all, that's what house-rules are for.

 

[Henry@home]

As written, Forcecage already enjoys several powerful advantages over Wall of Force:

*SNIP*

Yep, but it doesn't change the fact that Raolin is right. A person with sufficiently quick reflexes could foil this spell - a save would not be out of the question.

Official? I can't say. But I CAN say it's not unreasonable.