Anti-munchkin rules?

[Jack Haggerty]

Now, players will pick feats and skills and classes that will compliment their other abilties. They should, since it helps their characters do their jobs better.

But that's not really what you are wooried about. You are worried that your players will build silly characters that are more collections of optimized feats, skills and abilities, than characters.

Pontus has the best advice. Talk to your players and certain they know exactly what kind of character you want from them.

You might also try having your players create their characters' history/personality/background before they start writing down stats. Build the character first, and then choose classes and abilities to suit the character concept. Use the first entire gaming session to have every sit down together and build their characters.

 

[hong]

Personally, I think ridicule is the best munchkin repellent around.

 

[rankarrog]

Let the Munchkins just take NPC-Classes

This might sound silly at first, but it works great for Low-Magic-Campaigns(Ok all players need to do take npc-Classes, not just the munchkins and the commoner is not a suitable class at all, but otherwise it works).

 

[bloodymage]

Don't play 3e. You don't want "munchkins"? You can ask your players not to "munchkinize" or you can use another system. You can't rule 0 it away in 3e, IMHO.

 

[Vaxalon]

(responding to troll polymorphs being balanced)

I completely disagree.

Permanent +7 Natural armor, 10' reach, a 23 Strength, and a 14 Dex with a form that allows one to use one's own armor and weapons is too strong for a 4th level spell.

Garbage about "Well, you can't walk into a town looking like that" notwithstanding.

Whaddayamean 'garbage'? It's not garbage, and it withstands quite nicely.

There's also a significant penalty to going into combat with a form you're not familiar with.

 

[Forrester]

Whaddayamean 'garbage'? It's not garbage, and it withstands quite nicely.

There's also a significant penalty to going into combat with a form you're not familiar with.

The -2 penalty is not garbage -- the "can't go into town" nonsense IS garbage in any except city campaigns.

First of all, there's always a Hat of Disguise (2k) if you really need to look like a random Large creature, instead of a troll.

Second, in a world where Poly Other is as broken as it is, it would be common for higher-level guys to Poly themselves into Trolls and Stone Giants. Assuming you don't play a low-level, low-magic campaign.

Third, and more importantly, the meat of the fighting in MOST campaigns takes place outside of the city walls. (Duh.) The wizard Poly Others the fighters into trolls when they leave, and dispels the effect before they enter. Ooooooooooh. I know, it's very complex.

Meaning that the vast majority of the time (dungeon crawling, wilderness-adventuring, and so on), the fighters are Buff, Buff, Buff.

And if they happen to run into some traveling folks who are actually not hostile, the party rogue or bard with +20 to Diplomacy can explain why (for instance) a halfling and a gnome are traveling with two friendly, common-speaking trolls.

*yawn*

 

[Munin]

I've found that most things can be fixed 'in game'.

Take Rhino hide armor for example. Just tell your players that if they want rhino hide, they gotta find a rhino willing to part with it. Just finding the beast would be an adventure in itself, and no, I would not let them buy such an exotic item in town.
Then they'd have to kill it. Unless you play in a magic rich world, that ain't gonna be easy. Just look at rhinos in the real world, they ram TRAINS and walk away. They'd make a Minotaur look like a push over. Until we invented gun-powder, they were basically lords of their domain. Let them try their shield charge against that for a slice of humble pie.

 

[Crothian]

Don't play 3e. You don't want "munchkins"? You can ask your players not to "munchkinize" or you can use another system. You can't rule 0 it away in 3e, IMHO.

There is not a system made that can't be munchkined. THe simplest solution is don't play with them. Why alter your game to bring these people under reins? Cast them out and look for people who you can enjoy the game with.

 

[Forrester]

I have to disagree with the naysayers here. 3E is remarkably balanced. There's only a few truly bad munchkinny problems under the Core Rules, and I've mentioned most of them (forgot Harm, though. D'oh!)

Rule 0 those, and you should be ready to rock. Because lets face it, it's not always easy to get an entirely new crop of players -- and even players that want to do more roleplaying than powergaming sometimes can't resist the sweet sweet aroma of the Ultimate Doom Combo.

 

[Al]

Can I put the brakes on for a second? A lot of people here automatically assume that munchkin=powergamer. It is assumed that simply because a character is powerful, it is automatically munchkin. Not so. If a powerful character has a coherent and compelling background (and not one rigged to fit the smackdown) then why should it not also be a powerful character?

With this in mind, the answer is not to simply slap down a whole series of parameters and limits on a character. One can simply generate the ultimate munchkin within these parameters, so this is not a fix. And as for individual spells, then is it really munchkin to use the best weapon available? If a wizard memorises powerful spells instead of weak ones, this is a sign of common sense rather than 'munchkinning'. If there really is a problem, go to the heart. Have 'logical' characters, without placing a blanket ban.

If a character wishes to multiclass, let him- but in character. If the barbarian wants to be a wizard, he can find a mentor/academy and study to be one. The ranger can seek out the underworld to take that level in rogue. Randomly taking another class (including prestige) is out EVEN if it would not contribute to the power level of the character; conversely, if taken in character there is no problem even if it does make the character powerful. Apply similar logic to spells, feats etc.

Essentially, anti-munchkin is not anti-power. Anti-munchkin is pro-roleplay. Reducing the power of a munchkin doesn't solve the problem: he'll just munch out within the new parameters. To really tackle the problem, simply teach the munchkin how to roleplay properly.