Anti-Pretentious games

[eyebeams]

You do that, someday I'll write the paper about the tendency among certain gamers to align themselves fanatically with RPGs that claim to "elevated above the norm" of other RPGs for the sake of feeling that they are part of a special exclusive elite within our hobby; I would attribute that, generally speaking, this is a residual effect of past teenage outcasts' tendency to adopt justificational philosophies or counter-cultures to try to explain their bullying by other children ("they didn't pick on me because i'm a loser.. they picked on me because i'm a super-special artist and those common kids couldn't possibly understand me!! They dunk my head in the toilet because i'm a dark poet who threatens their very being with my superior intelligence, and not because i'm a pathetic wanker who'll be a virgin till i'm 33!!").

The need to be king of the beggars, now that's sad.

Nisarg

Given that GMS and I both create D20 material for our supper -- y'know, stuff about pirates and robots -- the miscast of this particular sling is especially amusing.

 

[eyebeams]

Yes. A couple of them even do it well.

Which makes it all the more hypocritical of White Wolf to maintain that pretentiousness as company policy and foster it among their fanboys.

Nisarg

So tell me; has Steve Wieck stopped beating his wfe yet?

 

[Campbell]

You do that, someday I'll write the paper about the tendency among certain gamers to align themselves fanatically with RPGs that claim to "elevated above the norm" of other RPGs for the sake of feeling that they are part of a special exclusive elite within our hobby; I would attribute that, generally speaking, this is a residual effect of past teenage outcasts' tendency to adopt justificational philosophies or counter-cultures to try to explain their bullying by other children ("they didn't pick on me because i'm a loser.. they picked on me because i'm a super-special artist and those common kids couldn't possibly understand me!! They dunk my head in the toilet because i'm a dark poet who threatens their very being with my superior intelligence, and not because i'm a pathetic wanker who'll be a virgin till i'm 33!!").

The need to be king of the beggars, now that's sad.

Nisarg

Nisarg,

Your portrayal of Vampire players is as blantantly offensive as the portrayal of D&D players by fringe elements of the hobby. While White Wolf certainly caters to drama queens, and the goth subculture to an extent, I believe that you're overanalyzing a fairly non-existent problem. It might just may be me, but I fail to see how the text contained within a roleplaying product can so durastically effect people's playstyles or create a sense of intellectual elitism in individuals who are not already inclined towards such attitudes.

In my experience, which may differ from yours, most gamers who run or play in Vampire games also enjoy a good solid game of D&D that matches their playstyles. I play in and run Vampire: the Requiem games from time to time because I enjoy the works of Miss Rice, and VtR seems like a good fit for those sorts of games, espicially since the older angsty pits have been downplayed in VtR. I run and play in D&D games because I'm a fan of Howard, Lieber, Moorcock, and Vance. I enjoy Mutants and Masterminds, and Champions because I like superhero comics. I don't believe that my friends and me are abberations, but I could be wrong.

 

[pogre]

This thread is to name all those games that are quietly competent and humble about it, sometimes even downright under-valued.

Nisarg

OK - FVLMINATA armed with lightning. What a clever fun game!

 

[Darkness]

Nisarg,

Your portrayal of Vampire players is as blantantly offensive ...

As far as I can tell, he wasn't talking about Vampire players in general. He was talking about:

... certain gamers to align themselves fanatically with RPGs that claim to "elevated above the norm" of other RPGs for the sake of feeling that they are part of a special exclusive elite within our hobby ...

Such people aren't very common. I used to be a GM in a Vampire LARP and I can't say for sure that I ever met one.

(BTW, claiming a majority of Vampire players are like this would break EN World rules, in case it needs to be said.)

 

[Nisarg]

Nisarg,

Your portrayal of Vampire players is as blantantly offensive as the portrayal of D&D players by fringe elements of the hobby. While White Wolf certainly caters to drama queens, and the goth subculture to an extent, I believe that you're overanalyzing a fairly non-existent problem. It might just may be me, but I fail to see how the text contained within a roleplaying product can so durastically effect people's playstyles or create a sense of intellectual elitism in individuals who are not already inclined towards such attitudes..

Well, it is a kind of chicken-and-egg question. I'm sure you're right, that those who have this attitude within the WW and other "storytelling" rpg fandoms probably already had it, its not that it was "created" by virtue of playing the game. They probably have similar attitudes about many other elements of their lives, for psychological reasons i outlined in a somewhat tongue-in-cheek sort of way above.

However, as a company WW (and the other companies that publish those sort of RPGs) has allowed and outright invited this kind of attitude, giving an outlet to this kind of elitism in the gaming field.

So no, meat-and-potatoes roleplayers who play D&D and other regular rpgs will not suddenly become black-beret wearing poseurs by virtue of playing in a Vampire campaign. In all likelihood, the vampire campaigns they play will also be of the sort that the black-beret types will decry as a "faulty" running of the game--er...the "art". But the game designers of these games are throwing fuel unto the fire by giving the fanboys a license to be asshats.

Nisarg

P.S. I hope this makes it clear that I am not painting all people who play Vampire or Nobilis or other such games with the same brush. My beef is only with the radical fanboys and with the publishers/designers themselves, who feel the need to proclaim and encourage this attitude.

 

[Nisarg]

OK - FVLMINATA armed with lightning. What a clever fun game!

Yes! Absolutely.. a very well designed game, with innovative mechanics and a great setting. All without pretensions.

Nisarg

 

[Crothian]

I've yet to find anything pretentios in a Vampire game. Palladium games (all of them), TORG, Shadowrun, GURPS, Ars MAgica, Paranio...all of those I have also found to be non pretentious.

D&D can be pretentious.

 

[Nisarg]

As far as I can tell, he wasn't talking about Vampire players in general. He was talking about: Such people aren't very common. I used to be a GM in a Vampire LARP and I can't say for sure that I ever met one.

(BTW, claiming a majority of Vampire players are like this would break EN World rules, in case it needs to be said.)

I was not talking about the majority of people who've played vampire. I was talking about a vocal and radical minority, the "drooling fanboys".

However, I was condemning the companies and designers who I feel overtly encourage these fanboy's mentalities, marketing to those kinds of pseudo-intellectual elitisms. I hope that's not breaking the rules.

Nisarg

 

[arscott]

I think the ultimate in good games with no pretension is make-believe.

You know that game you played when you were six where you got to be batman and your little sister was the unicorn princess and you fought the evil bedtime lords until your mom made you come inside for dinner?

That one. It leaves every other role-playing game in the dust.