Anti-Pretentious games

[Nisarg]

And it doesn't have any pieces of fiction in it (IMO fiction in a RPG rulebook is always a bad sign).

You know I agree with this statement very very strongly in almost all cases, but in Cthulhu I have a specific exception, since in the BRP edition of Cthulhu they actually included the "Call of Cthulhu" story, by HP Lovecraft; rather than the pathetically insipid game-fiction you see written by R. Bumquist Wannabenovelist in most game books.

But with that exception, in general you're absolutely correct. In game fiction almost always equals pretentiousness.

Nisarg

 

[S'mon]

I guess that was in a later BRP version than the one I have (the Games Workshop hardback ca 1985). Yes, including Lovecraft in a Cthulu game or Tolkien in a Middle Earth game gets a free pass.

 

[Crothian]

But with that exception, in general you're absolutely correct. In game fiction almost always equals pretentiousness.

Blood and Brains, and Blood and Spooks. Both have game fiction in them and neither oare close to your defintion of pretentiousness. You are taking a broad brush and trying to paint everything the same when their are clearly many examples that are not going to fit.

 

[eyebeams]

The definition he's using, while not the only possible definition, is a valid one...

Pretentious on Webster.com:

1 : b : expressive of affected, unwarranted, or exaggerated importance, worth, or stature <pretentious language> <pretentious houses>

In intellectually valid discussions, you don't get to restrict the definition of a word just because it would smear something you like. Doing that constitutes creating a pretentious neologism. And we all know those are bad.

 

[S'mon]

Game Designers' fiction isn't necessarily pretentious. Sometimes it's just dull - qv Traveller d20, say. The best games designers (Aaron Allston, Ian Sturrock eg) rarely if ever include it.

 

[Nisarg]

Game Designers' fiction isn't necessarily pretentious. Sometimes it's just dull - qv Traveller d20, say. The best games designers (Aaron Allston, Ian Sturrock eg) rarely if ever include it.

Well, not all game fiction is pretentious in the sense of being artsy or angsty, but they all do contain the pretense of being good fiction, and I have yet to see any that actually is.

Nisarg

PS: with the aforementioned exceptions of licensed works putting some of the author's own fiction in the book, ie. Lovecraft in Cthulhu.

 

[eyebeams]

Game Designers' fiction isn't necessarily pretentious. Sometimes it's just dull - qv Traveller d20, say. The best games designers (Aaron Allston, Ian Sturrock eg) rarely if ever include it.

It depends on the game. Allston's work has mostly been for settingless games. Ian Sturrock's Conan is written with a very specific idea about the setting in mind, that specifically excludes third party writers of Conan fiction (a pity in some ways, because some of it isn't that bad), so writing about it would contradict that mission.

On the other hand, Japanese games often include "replays," which are stories and comics that are published right from game sessions. I'd like to see more of this kind of thing myself.

You also have situations where it's desireable to use fiction to present the setting in a naturalistic light or to emphasize some vivid possibility in game play. Nobilis' short bursts of fiction do the latter. Lots of games do the former so that they can avoid the, "Welcome to the guild/kingdom/what have you; here's your manual," since that feels fake -- and to give some of the experience of play to the GM in one form or another.

 

[Crothian]

Well, not all game fiction is pretentious in the sense of being artsy or angsty, but they all do contain the pretense of being good fiction, and I have yet to see any that actually is.

Fiction in RPG books are there toi help capture the feel and set the tone for the people playing it. It is almost an example of game play. Valus is another example of an nRPG book with really good fiction that fits the game world and is non pretensious.

 

[GMSkarka]

Well, not all game fiction is pretentious in the sense of being artsy or angsty

Priceless, since "artsy" and "angsty" have nothing at all to do with the actual meaning of "pretentious."

And, while I have your attention:

Nisarg, I'm getting really tired of your lame attacks on game designers--especially your most recent one (the "R. Bumquist Wannabenovelist", which is just another not-remotely-clever stab at R. Sean Borgstrom, the author of NOBILIS). I'm going to ask you, politely, as one forum member to another, with the weight of no authority behind it whatsoever, to knock it the hell off, now.

 

[Nisarg]

Nisarg, I'm getting really tired of your lame attacks on game designers--especially your most recent one (the "R. Bumquist Wannabenovelist", which is just another not-remotely-clever stab at R. Sean Borgstrom, the author of NOBILIS). I'm going to ask you, politely, as one forum member to another, with the weight of no authority behind it whatsoever, to knock it the hell off, now.

LOL.. actually I'd never thought of the connection between (initial) Bumquist (funnyname) and R. Sean Bergstrom, until you brought it up.
If you've seen previous posts of mine in other threads you might have noticed the "R. Bumquist (insertjokehere)" thing is something I've used before from time to time.

It was by no means meant to be a specific attack on any specific writer.

Nisarg

PS; There's no search function on Enworld, but here are some instances in RPGnet where I've used that phrase before, with no context related to Bergstrom at all:
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?p=2642070&highlight=bumquist#post2642070
(R. Bumquist Unknownauthor)
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?p=2409402&highlight=bumquist#post2409402
(Joe Bumquist Wannabeauthor)
http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?p=2387654&highlight=bumquist#post2387654
(R. Fanboy Bumquist's Awesome RPG)