Antimagic field

[Setanta]

So, I'm rather new to DMing higher level games. Last Saturday, I had this big climatic fight setup with a lich. Combat started, the lich rolled badly on initiative (6 total), and the party cleric cast antimagic field, and moved next to the lich, then all the party fighters dog-piled him in grapples, and the fight was over before it began because the lich was helpless.

I'm sure there are ways for mages to deal with this sort of thing, I just can't think of any other than minions (particularly golems). I'd like to be able to have high level showdowns between a mage and his adversaries, though, without having to resort to minions every time. What do other DMs do to keep their mage BBEG's safe from this powerful spell?

 

[Cylock]

Antimagic Aura

I had a similar problem, but was prepared for the tactic once the spell became available to our cleric. Most intelligent enemies like Liches, and demons who might have knowledge of the spell should have a tactic readied to address it.

1) The Lich could back out of the antimagic zone and teleport/dim door away and wait it out until the field drops. This turns into a running battle, but what else would an intelligent enemy do when they are overwhelmed?

2) Make sure your boss monsters have minions.

3) High level creatures could have divined or predicted that the party would use such a tactic and called creatures via Greater Planar Ally that can be called in at a moments notice. You would be surprised what a Marilith can do to a party even without her spell-like/supernatural abililties.

4) Create a counter to the spell. It is reasonable that any intelligent creature who relies on magic to succeed would be able to foil that particular spell. In my campaign for example, one of the bad guys was a Netherise wizard who had spells available that the party never even heard of.

5) Psionics. In my campaign world, psionics is different than magic--this makes psionics more flavorful and allows high level players to worry about defending against different tactics.

6) Traps! Yes, I bet that cleric will be upset when they find themselves at the bottom of a pit trap without access to magic.

7) Surprise and initiative -- try to strip that spell from their mind with enervation or energy drain after winning initiative.

8) Counterspell. Have an enemy spellcaster prepared with a Greater Dispel if the cleric tries to use it.

Whatever you decide to use as a tactic, it is important that you don't strip this option from your party every time they try to use it. The best thing to do is to plan ahead when it does occur. If your players are so well known and use the same strategy over and over again, it is conceivable that their enemies will get wise to their actions.

Good luck

 

[caudor]

The steps Cylock outlined a pretty good responses a Lich might take.

Simply put, I'd play the Lich to the best of my (his) ability...since it is extremely intelligent, but without bending any rules.

If you players still spank him due to a combination of bad rolls (on the Lich's part) and smart play (on the player's part)...then I'd say more power to them. When the chips are down, I know my players count on me to be neutral, even if it means fewer fireworks in the grand finale.

 

[Evilhalfling]

Another tactic that just occured to me today -
admittidly the party is facing several high level arcane casters, and has had running battles with them and thier minons, both sides are very familiar with the other sides basic tactics, which have changed slightly by replacements made on both sides.

1. figure out what the parties favorate spells are - teleport, antimagic field, spectral hand/touch of idocy, greater invs, fly
2. prepare scrolls of those spells,
3. hand them out to apprentice - with high spellcraft
4. have apprentice counterspell directly with the appropriate spell.

The flaw - apprentice uses spells to save himself -
hmm can you read scrolls while invisable? counterspelling is not attacking - even the 2nd lvl spell would protect him.

 

[Saeviomagy]

So, I'm rather new to DMing higher level games. Last Saturday, I had this big climatic fight setup with a lich. Combat started, the lich rolled badly on initiative (6 total), and the party cleric cast antimagic field, and moved next to the lich, then all the party fighters dog-piled him in grapples, and the fight was over before it began because the lich was helpless.

Did the party know that they were facing a lich?

Did the lich know he was facing the party?

How did the party sneak up on him? If they're coming into his lair, it should be almost impossible for him to not know they're coming.

Finally - as others have said. If I'm the mage in the party, I have fighters near me to stop the opponents from surrounding me and beating the heck out of me.

If I'm a BBEG, I'm going to have the exact same thing.

 

[takyris]

As the lich, in a D&D game with normal rules, I'd be pretty silly to actually be standing where they thought I was standing. They'd walk up with their antimagic on and discover that they'd just come up and threatened an illusion.

If they seem to be abusing the tactic, then you can either come up with some horrific trap -- like an enormous hole in the wall that has had a lesser wall of force (which is vulnerable to antimagic fields) made permanent to block it off, with the area behind the wall filled with Green slime. Antimagic person walks by wall: No more wall. Big wave of green slime glops down on top of antimagic person -- or you can throw it back at them. If the tactic were really as elite as they were making it, then a Cleric1/Fighter9 with a 1/day Rod of Antimagic would be a pretty great guard. But that would get old faster than yasilimiri(sp) in a Star Wars game.

 

[RangerWickett]

Well, at least he's a lich, so if they didn't get his phylactery he can learn a way to outwit them, and come back to trounce them later.

Antimagic field seems a popular trick against liches. Try putting the party in a situation where magic is necessary to stay alive. The lich may have laired in an area so full of negative energy that without the proper spells to protect them, the party will die quickly. A lich can survive freezing cold, complete vacuum, flooded areas. If you were evil and you thought people might come and thump you, you'd probably have defenses that play to your strengths.

Wall of Force exists even in an antimagic field, sadly. Otherwise it'd be fun to have a lair that's built over a 200-ft. pit full of spikes, with a magical floor. If you cast antimagic field, you plummet to your deaths, while I regenerate.

Contingency can, if you interpret the rules right, give you an easy out. A lich would almost certainly identify an antimagic field as it's being cast, and I'd rule that you can say things as a reaction. So have contingency: "If I say, 'avast,' cast wall of force in a sphere around me." The lich sees you casting a spell he doesn't want to deal with, he says 'avast,' and pretty much nothing's getting through.

 

[Setanta]

There are some interesting comments here. I didn't give all the background. The party had been fighting him, beat him down to where he was near dead, so he teleported away. The party divined his new location, and went after him. This gave him a round to heal up and recast his buffs, but not much else. He was actually a psionic lich, but I was using magic transparency so the antimagic field got him once the party teleported to his new location and attacked. He had had minions, but they all died in the first part of the fight, and it felt cheessy for me to manufacture new minions at his new location after teleporting. So, what I'm looking for is how can a lich fend off antimagic field without minions, and not in his stronghold (that's where they attacked him in the first place, and he had to run).

Responses to indvidual points:
1- Back away from the anitmagic field. He rolled badly on initiative. The cleric moved next to him, then he was grappled before he had a chance to act, so backing away isn't going to happen.
2- Minions. Dead already. Also, I don't think every high level mage should automatically have tons of minions. Sure, most would, but I think some evil mages would hatch nefarious plots in seclusion.
3- Greater planar ally- he's psionic, so that wouldn't help in this particular situation. Also, is there someway he could call his ally while grappled in the antimagic field, if he were a more standard lich?
4- Create a counter to the spell. Sure, some mages could do that, but I certainly can't do that very often or the players would be unhappy. I also couldn't so that on the fly, as that would have been cheese.
5- Traps. Interesting. I'll use that at some point, but it wouldn't have worked here given the circumstances of the lich's teleportation.
6- Surprise and initiative- part of the problem is he rolled poorly on initiative and went after many of the players. I could have cheesed the die roll, but that would have been, well, cheese.
7- Counterspell- See minions, above. It he had some lower level mages hanging out as minions, counterspelling would be a great plan, but his minions were dead, and I'd rather not have every mage have hordes of minions.
8- Illusions- I assume this one's talking about mislead, which under normal circumstances would be a big help assuming nobody has cast true sight or whatever, but illusions can be an important line of defense. Unfortunately, this one was a psionic lich, and had nothing like mislead.
9- Contingency- Interesting idea, but I'm not sure it passes the "would I let my players do that" test. By a strict reading of the rules, it seems legal, though I'm sure some would argue that the mage can't say "avast" out of turn. I think it kind of steps out of the idea of the spell though, but maybe that's just me thinking of how the spell works in Baldur's Gate 2 which is really my only previous experience with high level D&D play (such as it is). Hmm, as I think about it, I think I'd let me players do that, so it's fair game for the bad guys (or good guys, since in this case the players are evil). Still, that wouldn't help if the lich didn't know there was an antimagic field in play anyway.
10- [added via edit- somehow I forgot this point the first time]- An environment where the lich can survive without magic, but the players can't. That's a great idea, and I'll use it at some point. Unfortunately, this time, they used scry first, then announced the antimagic field plan, so I couldn't say "hey wait, did I say he was in a normal looking house? I really meant he's at the bottom of the ocean." Next time, though, good plan.

Well, I've gotten some great food for thought for next time. I couldn't think of any grand plot to foil the antimagic field in the couple minutes I had, so it worked and the lich got whacked. Fortunately, they couldn't find his phylactery though.

 

[Darren]

Sounds like the lich will be needing a new lair. I'd recommend a permanent Mordekainen's Private Sanctum somewhere that can be reached only by teleportation/dimension door/etc. to reduce chance of a pesky divination revealing his location again. Then fill it with a poison gas of some sort. That should mostly negate teleport-antimagic working again.

 

[green slime]

..., with the area behind the wall filled with Green slime. Antimagic person walks by wall: No more wall. Big wave of green slime glops down on top of antimagic person...

What, I say, what, do you have against me that you want to have me "gloping" on top of an antimagic person? I just wonder?

What if someone suggested they fill an area behind a wall filled with takyris, eh? Then waves of takyris could "glop" on top of said person....

Sheesh....

The things I have to put up with.