ANy easy, good way to un-nerf magic items in 4th ed?

[keterys]

Oh wait, its about the general weak sauce nature of items in 4e. Gauntlets of Ogre power are an example.

Yep, they're a low level not impressive item - after all, it's an item you can give out at 1st level - by design, mind you, so it's a perfectly good house rule to decide to change things, by increasing the power of items, giving out higher level ones, or whatever works best for the DM of their respective game.

I say "If a power is a daily whether it comes form an item or a players, it should be something that you want to save because its so awesome you don't want to waste it unless you really need it."

Sure, though I think you write off a bit of design space by doing so - no huge harm done though.

Your response basically can be summed up at saying these other weak sauce level suck items are also level 5ish so gauntlets of ogre power should be as well. Hey if you like the items as they are that is great, I'm happy for you. I think they are weak as heck, boring and uninspired.

I think +2 magic weapons are weak, boring, and uninspired. They're also _level 6_. Not level suck. Not level poop. 6. I'm asking you not to keep it at the 'level suck' stage of discussion and get to the meat of 'so how do you change the game to solve this problem'. I offered giving higher level items out, as I think it'd be the simplest and easiest solution. In my games I also just give out more "lesser" items and don't restrict daily usage as heavily.

I mean, in my games the person with the gloves of ogre power uses them every single day, and happily, and it has definitely changed a hit into a kill with that extra damage at least once. She also got them at like 1st or 2nd level, when +5 was actually the equivalent of critting. The +1 athletics has also saved her from falling once, maybe even twice, if memory serves. Will she replace them someday? Absolutely, something better is guaranteed to come her way.

Are they impressive items? Heck no, but I don't need 1st level characters to have impressive items. If I did, I'd just give them higher level items.

That said, I've used and seen Power Jewels used to good effect, shields of protection and ironskin belts, bashing shield, throwing shield's daily... even the belt of sacrifice's daily, which has a painful cost, has still been very useful. Maybe the fact that I give out lots of these magic items has overcome their unimpressiveness and if, say, I gave someone only one item per level and you got the gloves instead of, say, a good magic weapon, you'd be upset. Can't argue with _that_ - any DM giving out magic items should always make sure the core 3 slots are covered, first.

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

Well good debate, I think in the end what the problem is, is my expectations from the NAMES and a few items being craptastic

Gauntlets of Ogre Power should be a higher level item with much better use (Like +4 Strength for an encounter, as a daily), and the existing gauntlets renamed to Gloves of Athletics or some such!

 

[keterys]

Well, no items should change your ability scores, to be honest. Ie, changing Str is just not something that is done anymore - too much effect on overhead and secondary calculations.

But, +2 melee dmg for the encounter is a pretty viable heroic tier item and has a similar effect. You can mix in the athletics/strength thing too, as desired, upping the item accordingly.

 

[Piratecat]

After some testy posts earlier, thanks for discussing this instead of arguing, guys. It's appreciated.

 

[Smeelbo]

Well, no items should change your ability scores, to be honest.

I think that should remain a hard and fast rule. Otherwise, just as in 3.x, items that increase your stats will become de riguer. It is clearly the intent of the 4e designers that effects modify specific derivatives of stats, like skills and bonuses, and never the underlying stat itself. To go against this is to invite an arms race.

Smeelbo

 

[CapnZapp]

Agreed. What you could do is to say an item replaces your static bonus to damage (the sum of all your bonuses) with +7, say.

Instead of your normal 1d8+3, a weak warlock would now do 1d8+7. A powerful warrior doing 1d12+10 would not be helped at all.

(The example turns you into someone having +4 from Str 18, +2 from a feat, and +1 from a weapon enchantment bonus. But the point is of course that only the designer needs to know this. In play, no math is needed - you simply substitute one number for another)

 

[Silverblade The Ench]

CapnZapp,
that makes sense

 

[timbannock]

You could also write the Keyword "Nerfed" next to any item (or even Power) that you feel is underpowered as it currently is. If it's a Daily or Encounter Power, a player with a Nerfed ability can spend an action point to reuse the Power that day/encounter. Or maybe a healing surge.

Or you can just automatically use any Nerfed power 1 more time/day or encounter than originally intended, at no cost.

Nerfed at-wills have any d20 rolls associated with them rolled with a +2 bonus. Or they increase their damage die to the next higher die (d4 -> d6 -> d8 -> etc.).

I suppose you could go notes and instead add an extra effect ("when you use this power, not only does it [insert original power here], but it also pushes the enemy 1 square"). But you're just begging for complications at this point. The rules above are simple, work across the board, and only take up a sentence in whatever House Rules document you come up with for your group.

Of course, if you notice you're writing the word "Nerfed" more than a dozen times or so, then you might have a misconception with how the rules work.

 

[CapnZapp]

A suggestion that doesn't actually increase the strength of any given item's power is to hand out combined items.

Custom items with the properties and/or powers of two regular items, that is.

As long as you only allow this for DM-assigned treasure, and specifically does not allow PCs to appropriate such items themselves (through magic shoppes, the enchant magic ritual, etc), you should be fine as long as you try to avoid combining two already very strong items.

Sure, two-items-into-one is better than two separate items, and thus more powerful. (But as that's the entire point of the thread, it shouldn't be a problem.)

Besides, the game have always featured multi-property items, so why not 4E?

 

[Nebulous]

I've been making my own items if I want to add something new other than the somewhat bland items in the PHB and AV. I have to agree, stuff that used to be cool, like Gauntlets of Ogre Strength and Slippers of Spider Climbing are now shadows of their former selves. As others suggested, tweaking a much higher level item and giving that to the PCs is a decent fix.