Any good morale systems for 3.x/Pathfinder?

[mmadsen]

Mmadsen: I don't want to go too far down the path of realism. This is D&D (well, Pathfinder, same diff) and I want to keep the feel of the PCs wading up to their hips in the blood and entrails of their foes. But I also want the mooks to have *some* sense and eventually break and run. Your points would definitely be valid if I wanted something more realistic, though.

I'm a big fan of realism, I'll admit it, but you have to admit it's 100 percent badass to stare down your opponent until he breaks and runs, and all kinds of action heroes do just that -- Batman, countless samurai and gunslingers, Samwise the Hobbit (with a little magical help), etc.

I'd like to see that become a fundamental element of the game, not a special power possessed by a few monsters.

 

[Terath Ninir]

Please return to this thread and post what you come up with. I'd like to see what you create.

Will do.

I'm a big fan of realism, I'll admit it, but you have to admit it's 100 percent badass to stare down your opponent until he breaks and runs, and all kinds of action heroes do just that -- Batman, countless samurai and gunslingers, Samwise the Hobbit (with a little magical help), etc.

I'd like to see that become a fundamental element of the game, not a special power possessed by a few monsters.

I have to admit that is persuasive. I'll take a deeper look at your stuff. It's beyond the scope of what I'm looking for at the moment, but who knows?

 

[Water Bob]

I'd like to see that become a fundamental element of the game, not a special power possessed by a few monsters.

Give every character and monster free ranks in Intimidate?

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Yeah, it's simple, but it doesn't work. The librarian with the high WIL save will stand before a foe that sends the barbarian with the low WIL save running.

Hypatia of Alexandria (b. ca. AD 350–370, d. March 415). Freakin' Christians....

On the 4e blooded system.... Perhaps a running total of HP to the group of enemies? If five gobbos have a total of 25 HP they have to make a morale test when they lose 13 HP? Seems awkward, but it might do.

The Auld Grump

 

[hagor]

@OP I figure d20's morale system is a simple WIL saving throw. Set the DC at whatever is appropriate.

For example, the PC party is fighting 6 goblins and 3 are slaughtered very quickly. The GM determines that these are "normal" goblins with unsteady morale ratings. They will bolt, under the circumstances, unless they make a DC 15 WILL save.

Simple, simple. And, you don'd need new rules.

+1. I use a similar system (3.E): morale check corresponds to will save. Difficulty usually depends on the circumstances. Also, smart foes may decide it is wiser to retreat than to fight to the death (no save, just DM's decision)

Yeah, it's simple, but it doesn't work. The librarian with the high WIL save will stand before a foe that sends the barbarian with the low WIL save running.

I don't agree: DM can (should) always use modifiers to represent the situation at hand. In your example, a librarian, despite his high WILL save, would have negative modifiers because of e.g. being basically a non-combatant, coward, etc.; while the barbarian would have a bonus (brave, in rage, ...), if he has to make a save at all (in rage).

Hagor

edit: nevermind - ninja'd by about half enworld - should have read the whole thread

 

[mmadsen]

Give every character and monster free ranks in Intimidate?

Yes, something like that. Years ago, when I first picked up Champions, the superhero game, I came across its version of Charisma, called Presence, which allowed you to make a Presence Attack -- to literally shock & awe criminals by, say, charging through a wall, yelling, "It's clobberin' time!"

It took me a while to realize that this would totally work in a fantasy game, too -- just add a Presence stat, comprising BAB + Cha bonus + equipment bonuses for glowing weapons, resplendent armor, barbarian war cries, etc.

Then start each battle with a "free" intimidate check, based on that Presence stat, leaving some characters shaken indefinitely, potentially frightened, and even panicked.

 

[garrowolf]

[MENTION=1645]mmadsen[/MENTION] I actually replaced charisma with Presence in my game. My reasoning is that it is the measure that people will notice you for good or ill. It was linked to willpower save because predators and leaders would have more willpower and prey animals and meek people would have less. How you used it was more of a factor of what skill you were using.