Any Roman history nerds here?

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I seem to recall my father telling me, long ago, that the Roman Empire used to give land grants to decorated military veterans waaaaay out on the edges of the empire, both to keep them from causing trouble at home, as Julius famously did, and also to get some free labor out of them, pacifying the frontier.

Was this a thing? Can you tell me more about it? I think I might steal the concept for my OSR homebrew setting, since I want to have a rationale why adventurers keep showing up in this dangerous frontier province and not, you know, just leaving.

 

[Davies]

This was a thing, but I'm afraid I don't know much more than what you just said. I don't remember exactly which article talks about it, but I think there might be one on A Collection of Unmitigated Pedantry, a regularly updated blog about history, pop culture and the intersection of same.

 

[billd91]

Found an interesting link. Might get you in the track. The settlement of veterans in the Roman Empire - UCL Discovery

 

[Digdude]

Its been a while since my classicsl studies but I believe some of this started during marius reforms and then followed by sulla. Its a good starting point at least. Ill hunt around for more in the morning.

 

[Kobold Stew]

This book (link to academia.edu), from 2007, has strong essays by contemporary scholars. Chapter 24 has much of where scholarship was at 15 years ago (= recent, for Roman history).

 

[Tonguez]

Gaius Marius introduced the Marian Reforms of 107 BC. which turned the Romans from a conscript levy militia called up for a short block before disbanding and going back to their farms, into the professional volunteer Army The Romans are known for. After Marius Soldiers were paid a salary and equipped by the state, they became Citizens and those who retired were given pensions and a land grant.

The problem came because Roman nobles complained about their lands being redistributed to peasants, thus it became more prudent to send the veterans to the colonies both to appease the noble families and to keep skilled veterans isolated from Roman politics. It also had the effect of entrenching Roman culture in new colonies.

The downside was that these legions had more loyalty to their local General than they did to Rome, some Generals going so far as to extend their own imperium leading to civil wars.

 

[MGibster]

I seem to recall my father telling me, long ago, that the Roman Empire used to give land grants to decorated military veterans waaaaay out on the edges of the empire, both to keep them from causing trouble at home, as Julius famously did, and also to get some free labor out of them, pacifying the frontier.

Was this a thing? Can you tell me more about it? I think I might steal the concept for my OSR homebrew setting, since I want to have a rationale why adventurers keep showing up in this dangerous frontier province and not, you know, just leaving.

It was a plot point in HBO's Rome a few year back (18 years ago holy %$@!). Caesar needs to convince some veterans to accept their promised land in Gaul, and one of the soldiers complains, "We don't want to have to carry swords while we plow" basically saying they don't want to worry constantly about getting ganked by the enemy. So Caesar enlists the aid of Lucius Vorenus (Kevin McKidd star of Dog Soldiers) to convince them to accept the deal and go be good farmers.

So in the 1st century, Roman soldiers who retired got a plot of land somewhere or the monetary equivalent. One of the things I liked about Rome was that when Titus Pullo and Lucius retire, they try to get straight jobs in the civilian world and things aren't working out so well for them. Remember, these folks have been in the army for at least twenty years and those skills don't always translate to civilian life. While butchering some pigs Lucius says something about things being different from the army and Pullo remarks, "Smells the same at least."

I have a homebrew setting with an evil empire inspired mainly by Rome. In this setting, the Dragonborn were created as shock toops for the empire, and when they retire they get their own little plot of land. So there are little communites of dragonborn in client kingdoms who are ostensibly loyal to the empire. But you know, after a few centuries of being their own community, loyalties tend to drift.

 

[Jolly Ruby]

Could you say they were given... keeps on the borderlands?

 

[Zardnaar]

That was essentially how it went in theory at one point.

Note we think it was becoming a farmer it was probably more like becoming a landowner.

I used to game with a guy who got one of the last good contracts on Australian army. Joined age 17 or 18 did his 20 years retired on 80% of his wages for rest of his life.

 

[gamerprinter]

Going by one of the King Arthur theories, rather than being British, Arthur was actually a Sarmatian general defeated by the Romans in Eastern Europe, but recruited by them to serve on Hadrian's Wall. After the Romans left, he stayed and became the legend of Arthur. Going by that tale, it's basically what you're suggesting, more or less.

In part of my heritage, at least on my Irish/Scottish blood came from Dal Riata (before the Roman invasion of Britain), and my forebears fought against the Romans at Hadrian's Wall, and lost. Then they went to Norway to recover and recruit more fighters for another go against the Romans at home. While there, an emissary from Attila arrived in Norway, recruiting for fighters to fight Rome under Attila. Apparently some of the relatives of my ancestors went with Attila, fought the Romans, and lost, but became Hungarian aristocracy for doing so. So almost the same thing as Romans giving land to retired soldiers, but for soldiers that fought against Rome...

Oh, and Dal Riata was an Irish/Scottish kingdom originating in Ulster, Ireland stretching across the Irish Sea to the western isles of Scotland, Southern Scotland (lowlands) and northwestern England from about 200 BC onward until the Roman invasion of Britain. All the aristocracy came from Ulster, and one of them was family...

It was probably a common practice internationally, at the time.