D&D 5E (2014) Any word on the gaming license for Next?

[Nellisir]

My guess: The 5E license will be designed to make it safe and easy for 3PPs to write 5E adventures and supplements, with an eye toward fostering a vibrant third-party community. Not only will that strengthen the game, it will also allow D&D to continue with minimal active support from Wizards, so they can keep a modest revenue stream from the core books even if Hasbro mothballs the brand. However, those core books will remain closed. You will not be allowed to reprint the 5E Player's Handbook minus a few spell names. That will be the price of getting the suits on board.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I've been saying. It'll be a compromise between the OGL and GSL that will restrict the type and quantity of material (no complete game systems), but make it easier for the 3PP to produce supplementary material and adventures.

 

[Mark CMG]

But if there had been no OGL in the first place, Pathfinder also would not have happened.

Naw, the outgoing WotC employees would still have been making games, and there is a steady stream of former designers, writers, artists, etc. thanks to non-OGL-related business practices. The only question is how much a PF would have looked like 3.XE if that path-of-least-resistance had not existed. Some WotC suits might point toward the OGL as its greatest blunder but I'm convinced the designers behind the many OGL games would have been even more creative in a non-OGL world. One could argue that the existence of the OGL is a blessing for WotC as it provides them for a way back in.

 

[darjr]

Come up with a compelling argument that will convince WotC corporate, their corporate parents at Hasbro, Hasbro's shareholders, and the lawyers that the OGL (or something like it, tailored to 5th) is good for them.

I think it's a pretty tricky task to do so, when anyone can look at D&D's primary competition and see that the system that the company is selling is one that WotC developed and then gave away under the OGL.

The last thing I expect that they want is for five to ten years down the line, when they're going through all of this again, to find themselves competing with a second system that they gave away. Especially if Pathfinder is still going strong.

There is an RPG company, probably the best selling RPG company, doing gangbusters using the OGL right now. A competitor using the OGL could crop up at any minute and compete head to head with them.

I think it'd only be good for WotC to follow that lead.

 

[darjr]

Paizo would be insane to abandon Pathfinder in favour of 5e, even if 5e were OGL. In fact, even if WotC were to offer to pay Paizo for every 5e product they produced, they would still be insane to take that deal.

Not if their customers like it and there is an OGL for 5e, I wouldn't think it crazy. I do think that the possibility is very low. Not because 5e is bad, I'm starting to like it.

 

[darjr]

Naw, the outgoing WotC employees would still have been making games, and there is a steady stream of former designers, writers, artists, etc. thanks to non-OGL-related business practices. The only question is how much a PF would have looked like 3.XE if that path-of-least-resistance had not existed. Some WotC suits might point toward the OGL as its greatest blunder but I'm convinced the designers behind the many OGL games would have been even more creative in a non-OGL world. One could argue that the existence of the OGL is a blessing for WotC as it provides them for a way back in.

good point.

it's not so much that the OGL enabled Paizo, it's that Paizo had to find a way to survive as a company or fire a ton of people. Without the OGL I don't think Paizo would have given up and would have probably done something different. I wonder what that alternate universe looks like.

 

[Perram]

Not if their customers like it and there is an OGL for 5e, I wouldn't think it crazy. I do think that the possibility is very low. Not because 5e is bad, I'm starting to like it.

From the interviews I've done with the Paizo team, I think the issues with the magazines, the issues with the GSL, and the loss of the Star Wars licenses have turned them off doing anything but their own thing right now. They've said that even just the huge amount of art they paid for that no longer belongs to them would have been a huge part of that consideration. When we interviewed Lisa Stevens on the subject, she goes into all of that. And there is also the freedom that comes with owning your own future, not relying on the success of another company.

In my opinion, A 5e OGL would have to be bullet proof, AND a HUGE portion of the existing Pathfinder audience would have to want to convert before Paizo would switch. To the point that the choice would be between switching Pathfinder over or shutting down the project. An unlikely scenario, but possible.

Remember, a lot of what made Pathfinder successful as opposed to Fantasy Craft or other offerings was the production quality of the books, the tie-in products, the organized play campaign, and the World Setting it is based in. Not one element, but every element aligning at once.

 

[Dausuul]

From the interviews I've done with the Paizo team, I think the issues with the magazines, the issues with the GSL, and the loss of the Star Wars licenses have turned them off doing anything but their own thing right now. They've said that even just the huge amount of art they paid for that no longer belongs to them would have been a huge part of that consideration. When we interviewed Lisa Stevens on the subject, she goes into all of that. And there is also the freedom that comes with owning your own future, not relying on the success of another company.

In my opinion, A 5e OGL would have to be bullet proof, AND a HUGE portion of the existing Pathfinder audience would have to want to convert before Paizo would switch. To the point that the choice would be between switching Pathfinder over or shutting down the project. An unlikely scenario, but possible.

Remember, a lot of what made Pathfinder successful as opposed to Fantasy Craft or other offerings was the production quality of the books, the tie-in products, the organized play campaign, and the World Setting it is based in. Not one element, but every element aligning at once.

Agreed. Paizo isn't going to scrap Pathfinder unless it completely tanks, and that's unlikely. They might conceivably cross-support 5E (that is, offer 5E versions of Pathfinder adventures), but I can't imagine them ever putting D&D ahead of Pathfinder again. It worked out well for Paizo in the end, but they got burned pretty badly by Wizards with the GSL debacle.

 

[delericho]

Not if their customers like it and there is an OGL for 5e, I wouldn't think it crazy.

Nope, even then they would have to be insane. By abandoning Pathfinder for 5e support, they would once again be shackling the future of their company to the actions of another company.

But they'd also be in a worse position than last time - having gone down the Pathfinder route and then abandoned it, they wouldn't then be able to revisit that well - their customers simply wouldn't trust them. So if 6e then saw another reversal by WotC (or whoever owns D&D by then), Paizo would be dead in the water.

The only two scenarios I can imagine that see Paizo supporting D&D in favour of Pathfinder are (1) WotC buy out Paizo or (2) Paizo somehow acquire the D&D IP.

 

[darjr]

Nope, even then they would have to be insane. By abandoning Pathfinder for 5e support, they would once again be shackling the future of their company to the actions of another company.

But they'd also be in a worse position than last time - having gone down the Pathfinder route and then abandoned it, they wouldn't then be able to revisit that well - their customers simply wouldn't trust them. So if 6e then saw another reversal by WotC (or whoever owns D&D by then), Paizo would be dead in the water.

The only two scenarios I can imagine that see Paizo supporting D&D in favour of Pathfinder are (1) WotC buy out Paizo or (2) Paizo somehow acquire the D&D IP.

eh I think we agree more than we disagree. I think perram nailed it.

I will say that I think Paizo loves their customers, and if those customers wanted 5e support I don't think Paizo would be crazy to do it. PROVIDED they could play ball without WotC being able to pull the plug.

 

[Ahnehnois]

The real question is, if 5e were OGL, would it be able to compete with the existing OGL game?

Among other things, the existing OGL ensure that its version of the game will remain the leader int he hobby until something better comes around, regardless of what the license is.