Any word yet on 3.5 Paladins?

[Herremann the Wise]

At the risk of sounding dogmatic, a Paladin really should remain LG. Its how the Archetype has been played since year dot.

However, since you have gone to the dictionary: trusted, champion and cause imply both lawfulness and goodness (with perhaps more an emphasis on law than good).

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Green Knight]

Why should the Paladin remains a LG only class? Certainly the Lord of Chaos or the Lords of Evil have thier own Holy Warriors do they not?

Yes, they do have their own Holy Warriors. They're called CLERICS.

IMO, I'd much prefer to see the Cleric renamed as the Holy Warrior, and a new class introduced which is a more powerful Divine spellcaster, but is limited in armaments and armor, like a wizard.

Besides, how could the Lord of Chaos possibly have a Paladin? You've missed one of the most vital aspects of the Paladin, the Paladin's Code. You can't have a PC which is Chaotic who has to abide by a Code. Even a Neutral character wouldn't fit in with a character class which has to abide by a Code. Only a Lawful character would be suitable for such a class.

As for alignments, Lawful Neutral isn't appropriate, either. Why's he dedicated to the Code? Just for the sake of being dedicated to the Code? And Lawful Evil, what's his Code? To wreak death and destruction? Yeah, some Code. That's REAL limiting! A Paladin can only really be Lawful Good and still be a Paladin.

And no, he's not a Holy Warrior. He's a warrior who wields divine power, but it's not to serve as a champion for his deity. You don't even HAVE to have a deity to be a Paladin. Nor does it say in the PHB that the gods create Paladins. Rather, it says that being a Paladin is something inborn. Something WITHIN you. The power doesn't come from an external source. That's in contrast to, say, the Blackguard, who has to make peaceful contact with an evil outsider to contract the taint of true evil and become a Blackguard. That's why the Paladin is a Core Class and all the various alignment Paladin wannabees are Prestige Classes. One is BORN a Paladin. Everything else, Holy Liberator, Blackguard, Divine Champion, etc, one has to be made into.

 

[kibbitz]

Then a whole host of 'Holy Warriors' as a core class needs to be defined, wouldn't you say? At least that is how I am handling it in my games.

Something like that, yes.

Sounds good. I would like to point you to the UMBRAGIA boards here at ENWorld. I would specifically like your feedback on the work we are doing to make the Priest and Holy Warrior concepts more faith based, rather than cookie-cutter implementations.

Noted, will give feedback after I finish reading it. Do note that I haven't actually gamed with 3E (or with any system for the past, say, 8 years), so forgive me if I screw up on comments about balancing

 

[Saeviomagy]

The big one I'd like to see:
Removal of that stupid "no returning to the class after a multiclass" rule.

Beyond that:
Green Knight - you honestly believe that the cleric's spellcasting isn't powerful enough?? What would you possibly do - add half the wizard spell list and double his spells per day perhaps? The cleric as-is is almost good enough to take without his armour and weapon proficiencies.

Beyond that - I'd favour the creation of other paladins for different alignments. The 'paladin's code' isn't actually balancing out the paladin at all. Lack of such a code, or the existence of different weaker codes wouldn't radically affect balance.

 

[Bran Blackbyrd]

Toad mount?
If that's another way of saying Chocobo, then you're absolutely right.

 

[Cedric]

I just hope my friend was right with his scoop on bonus feats. I think the thing that would set the paladin apart and make him very desireable to play are those few extra feats.

To summarize, I have a friend, who claims paladins are going to get bonus feats at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, 20th.

Cedric

 

[FireLance]

I just hope my friend was right with his scoop on bonus feats. I think the thing that would set the paladin apart and make him very desireable to play are those few extra feats.

To summarize, I have a friend, who claims paladins are going to get bonus feats at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, 20th.

Cedric

In my view, bonus feats are the Fighter's specialty, and every warrior-type class that gets bonus feats would simply detract from the attractiveness of the Fighter.

If this is going to be the case, then hopefully the Paladin's bonus feat list will have little or no overlap with the Fighter's.

 

[Jens]

In my view, bonus feats are the Fighter's specialty, and every warrior-type class that gets bonus feats would simply detract from the attractiveness of the Fighter.

Very true. The ranger's virtual feats are imo too much already.

But the paladin could use some oomph. A *few* extra Smites at higher levels might be good (say, an extra daily smite per 8 levels), possibly at the cost of Remove Disease (just make it available as a spell and be done with it).

Or some other special ability that could help paladins fight evil opponents but which is useless otherwise. How about an ability to bond with a weapon, enhancing it's power against evil; Bonded Weapon or something like that. Well, just thinking out loud

 

[Will]

I agree wrt Clerics being Holy Warriors.

Personally, I'd subtract some of the power from Clerics to balance them (they are somewhat overpowered).

And then create a Priest class, probably with spontaneous casting of divine magic.

 

[KDLadage]

You know, if you drop the Paladin's LG prerequisite, then it's not a Paladin anymore.

You know, if you remove THAC0, it's not D&D anymore...