Anyone done work on a Shaman "core class"?

[Nail]

I feel honored to be one of Afrodyte's first ten posts. All hail the Lords of Mt. Olympus! Huzzah!!

...oh wait...it's spelled differently. A reply from a hobbit, apparently. My mistake!


All unfair, crass, and tasteless ribbing aside, there are some great ideas here, Ms. Hobbit Goddess.

• I think that being able to communicate with spirits should certainly be high on the list for animist abilities. Perhaps have the power of the spirit contacted be related to level?
  
• One of the things that could make the animist stand out is that unlike arcane and divine casters, their powers are not as predictable. Fumbles when dealing with spirits could have disastrous consequences.
  
• Also, perhaps they should have a level-dependant ability to travel into the spirit world. As they level up, maybe they could gain access to more remote and more guarded areas. Maybe they can bring people with them as they get more powerful.
  
• I have an idea for the skill list of animists. Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Knowledge (spirit) should certainly be on the list,....
  
• As far as alignment goes, I'm not sure about restrictions......

I hope this helps.

It does, thanks! I hope you don't mind too much how much I've mangled your message.

My comments/replies:

• I gave the animist the power to see spirits at first level, with a successful spot check......but not the power to talk with them....I saved that for 2nd level. Does that make sense?
  
• Is there a way to deal with "fumbles" that doesn't require a spell casting roll? Difficulty in summoning the next spirit? An Atonement is necessary? Hmmm....
  
• I completely agree with your list of skills. It perfectly duplicates the one I made up. Great minds, and all o' that dreck...
  
• I made the alignment requirement that some part of the alignmnet be neutral, to reflect the fact that they must have some sort of detachment and impartiality when dealing with spirits.

 

[Afrodyte]

• I gave the animist the power to see spirits at first level, with a successful spot check......but not the power to talk with them....I saved that for 2nd level. Does that make sense?
  
• Is there a way to deal with "fumbles" that doesn't require a spell casting roll? Difficulty in summoning the next spirit? An Atonement is necessary? Hmmm....
  
• I made the alignment requirement that some part of the alignmnet be neutral, to reflect the fact that they must have some sort of detachment and impartiality when dealing with spirits.

Seeing spirits at first level and talking with them at second level does make sense. But it does leave one to question what is it they do at first level.

I would leave fumbles up to RP. If you need a rule for it, Atonement works. Maybe have a Spirit Reputation score? Spirits could have a way of knowing things about people, being that they may have the ability to peek in on the Prime Material plane or converse with spirits who deal with terrestrial beings. It could work something like the Leadership feat (maybe design a special feat for animists?), but instead of followers, it measures a character's standing with the spirits. It's not so much reputation as a measure of their past actions and present intentions. It goes up with good dealings with spirits, down with bad dealings with them. It would constantly fluctuate, depending of course upon a character's actions. Perhaps this is the way animists would gain allies (and enemies) in the spirit world.

As far as alignment is concerned, I can see what you mean, but I still think there are ways for non-neutral alignments to deal with spirits. However, the fact that you can play 5 of the 9 alignments says much.

 

[Kevin O'Reilly]

Niall

(Oops forgot about the castring thing - In my world spellcasters do have make spellcraft checks to call magic without penalty of injury.)

However, The call DC may be used whenever a Shaman calls on a spirit and bargians for service. From there on the Shaman merely calls upon the spirit with her fetish (think of it like a holy symbol).

I'd strongly recommend limited a spirits aid each time a bargain is truck, such as for a moon, or until the tides run higher than the winter soil, or unitl the shaman spills blood... Adds falvor and potentially stops the shaman being too powerful.

I've also posted the class separately

Kevin

 

[Nail]

Thanks for the responses! I'm on vacation (away from my notes), so I've been a bit slow thinking this stuff through.

Seeing spirits at first level and talking with them at second level does make sense. But it does leave one to question what is it they do at first level.

Yep, I know. I've given Animists 1 guardian spirit, and 1 spirit ally per point of Cha mod, all at first level. I figure the guardian spirit is a "special case", allowing the animist to talk with it whenever she chooses, and that the extra spirit allies are there due to the spirit guardians intercesion on the animist's behalf. (This is not a perfect or elegant solution.)

Then, at second level, the animist may summon and bargain with additional spirits, in the hopes of getting even more spirit allies. So, at 2nd level the animist has the "Speak with Spirits ability.

Does any of that make sense?

I would leave fumbles up to RP. If you need a rule for it, Atonement works. Maybe have a Spirit Reputation score? ....(snip)....like the Leadership feat ?

This might work....are there any other d20 systems with a similar mechanic? A "reputation score"? The Leadership feat doesn't really have a score that you keep track of...that is, you sort of calculate it on the fly, don't you?

Still, this seems like the best idea so far for determining how interactions with spirits turn out. You'll note I'm leaving a purely role-playing solutiuon out of this: Of course I can/will add such a thing, but I'd like some simple mechanics as a base.

 

[Nail]

I'd strongly recommend limited a spirits aid each time a bargain is truck, such as for a moon, or until the tides run higher than the winter soil, or unitl the shaman spills blood... Adds falvor and potentially stops the shaman being too powerful.

Depends on what the spirit grants the shaman, nicht var?

I was thinking that the animist gains only spells from the spirits he makes his allies. IOW, they don't come to the Prime Material Plane to fight for him. In fact, in my cosmology, spirits usually don't have the power to enter the Prime Material Plane (PMP) ....that's why you don't see a bunch of spirits down at the pub taking in a pint and pinching the drink-wench!

I'd like spirits to be "connected" to the PMP, but unable to affect it except in the most subtle ways. Of course, some spirits are able to break through, for a short time, into the Ethereal Plane, and from there work their will in the PMP......it's the Animist's (Shaman's) job to protect their people should such a thing occur.

As the Animist gains levels, I'm envisioning a power which would allow him to summon his spirit guardian into the PMP,.....though doing so exposes it to the risk of death/destruction.

Are your shamans allowed to summon thier spirit allies? What happens if one is destroyed?

 

[Afrodyte]

This might work....are there any other d20 systems with a similar mechanic? A "reputation score"? The Leadership feat doesn't really have a score that you keep track of...that is, you sort of calculate it on the fly, don't you?

Still, this seems like the best idea so far for determining how interactions with spirits turn out. You'll note I'm leaving a purely role-playing solutiuon out of this: Of course I can/will add such a thing, but I'd like some simple mechanics as a base.

I think Wheel of Time has one.

 

[Nail]

I think Wheel of Time has one.

You wouldn't happen to know the mechanics behind it? Is it like hp? A "mana" system? Some skill with DCs? Some other elegant solution that has yet to cross th' infinite void?

 

[Afrodyte]

It's by level and class. It starts from 1 to 3 (depending on class). The highest starting reputation score in WoT goes to nobles, which starts at 3. As you level up, you gain Reputation because the game supposes that when you are performing deeds of danger and heroism, people will find out about it. The rate is about 1 Reputation point per two levels. You also gain Reputation via acts that attract attention.

 

[Kevin O'Reilly]

Are your shamans allowed to summon thier spirit allies? What happens if one is destroyed?

They sure are.

If the spirit's summoned form is destroyed the shaman cannot call on the spirits aid until she has bargained with the spirit. In addition, the shaman cannot call the spirit to bargain for a number of days equal to the hghest level spell the spirit can grant, so upto 9 days for a Great Spirit.

Of course, during this hiatus the Shaman cannot cast spells from the domain that the spirit granted, nor does she have access to the power granted by the spirit.