Anyone else buying the Dieties & Demigods even though they won't use the stats?

[Information]

Hi all...

One idea you might consider, if you are a member of the "no stats for deities" cliche, is to simply use the stats in the D&D as higher level avatars. Or, the deities could all agree that when they manifest individually in the Material Plane, they must take on forms which could conceivably be defeated.

I'm buying them FOR the stats. I hated 2nd Edition's Legends and Lore. Just a bunch of useless information I could get where I work (i.e. a library or even the Web).

 

[Information]

I always figured the only way to kill a god was kill everyone who believed in them.

Well, I've always found the idea of linking a deity's power level to their # of worshippers ridiculous.

Think about it. If the deities created mortals, and were in fact deities before the creation of mortals, then how is it that a deity can be reduced to nondeity status by virtue of loss of worshippers, when this was never a factor before the creation of terrestrial life?!

As far as stats vs. no stats. Deities must be quantified in some way. It is absurd to think that all deities in a pantheon could be omnipotent (I always laughed just thinking of co-existent greater gods, which under 2nd Edition rules could do anything).

On the other hand, I see the point of those who think stats cheapen deities.

But in the end...darn it...stats are so much more fun! But hey thats just my humble opinion.

 

[Heretic Apostate]

Actually, even in monotheism.. For example, in Genesis 32, Jacob defeats God in a wretling match.

It's been about 10 years since I've cracked open a bible, but I seem to recall that Jacob wrestled with an angel, not with god. This is the one where Jacob was winning, until his opponent pulled a fast one and caused his shoulder to dislocate, right?

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Anyone remember the episode of the original Star Trek series where Kirk and crew found the Greek gods on a remote planet? They just happened to be really powerful beings, not "gods," really, but would seem so to mortal humans. That's how I view using stats for gods.

 

[Akunin]

It's been about 10 years since I've cracked open a bible, but I seem to recall that Jacob wrestled with an angel, not with god. This is the one where Jacob was winning, until his opponent pulled a fast one and caused his shoulder to dislocate, right?

Jacob was renamed Israel in that story, which means "He struggles with God", and names the place Penel ("Face of God") after the encounter.

God dislocated Jacob's hip when he found that he could not defeat Jacob.

 

[JerryLove]

Well, I've always found the idea of linking a deity's power level to their # of worshippers ridiculous.

Then why do all deities want worshippers?

Think about it. If the deities created mortals, and were in fact deities before the creation of mortals, then how is it that a deity can be reduced to nondeity status by virtue of loss of worshippers, when this was never a factor before the creation of terrestrial life?!

Not all mythologies have dieties deities creating mortals, and not all dieties participated even in those mythologies where dieties did create mortals.

After all, with man *creating* magical armor and weapons and potions of giant strength, how can mans power be measured by how good his armor and weapons and potions of giant strength are?

 

[tsadkiel]

Then why do all deities want worshippers?

Because it makes them feel big.

Seriously, the answer to this is that not all deities do want worshippers. Zeus couldn't care less if you held the ideals of Zeus in your heart; as long as you kept the burnt offerings coming, he'd make it rain when you needed it.

Even the burnt offerings don't seem to be necessary to Zeus' well-being, since he's willing to wipe out humanity with a big flood when they piss him off. (Deucalion and his wife are preserved by Prometheus's warning, ratehr than any wishy-washy impulses on Zeus's part.)

 

[Aris]

Then why do all deities want worshippers?

Because they need people to do their bidding. for example, in the FR, Bane never really does anything in the realms but his church(that follows his orders) is a real danger to all that are against hem. Also some gods(like big T) need worshipers to give them powers.

On a very different note

Other than stats of deities, how to become a deity, and how to make a deity; What will it have. I want to see the domains(or some kind of useful info) on other deities(like the greek partheon). If not what else. I may skip it if it doesn't have anything else. Thanks

 

[mmadsen]

Are people happy with how the gods are going to be statted? That is, if you're inclined to view the Greek and Norse gods as "merely" superhuman (and not omnipotent), and you find the idea of stats appropriate, are you happy with the particular stats being handed out?

As I mentioned earlier, the examples floating around give Heracles, a manic-depressive who kills in blind rage, a high Wisdom score (18?), high Charisma, etc. And he's acid- and poison-proof. Shouldn't gods with known flaws and weaknesses...be flawed and weak?

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Each era takes what the past gives it and makes it its own. That is, no matter how much one espouses the use of ancient mythological characters by way of the original description, the current generation will interpret them by their own frame of reference.

Another way to look at ancient figures of religion is like this: We don't see many people, if any, following Christianity as it was originally followed. In fact, the impression of God and Christ has changed throughout the centuries. Religions adapt and change to meet the needs of those who are currently worshipping. They don't change quickly, but they do change. The same goes for figures of myth and legend. I'm sure that all the Greek gods and heroes met some need in their audience with their violence prone ways, but whatever it was doesn't really apply now, at least not in the same way. Those that didn't touch upon some universal need were not updated and are lost to antiquity.

The depiction of Hercules that we saw in the Deities & Demigods preview in Game Trade Magazine seemed perfectly fine to me.