D&D 5E Anyone else finding character advancement pretty dull?

[ccs]

Because if enough people join in this request, they would listen.

The category I was referring to was joining the angry & the frustrated.

I'm neither & not likely to become.
Through their surveys I've told WoTC what I want - a dedicated Monster Manual volume every 12-18 months that includes all the monsters released through the adventures since the last volume. I've also told them that if they don't include the monsters from the adventures that I'll happily pirate those pages (and I do) because I'm not spending the $ on an adventure I don't need or care about for a couple of pages. And I'll tell them this again in future surveys.
Well, I'm kinda getting it - Volos, Mordenkanians.

In the meantime I'll just keep happily running/playing 5e, pirating pages, & hoping that the next book they announce will be my dedicated MM2 or whatever they want to call it.

There's plenty of things for me to be angry & frustrated over, but WoTC not giving me another pure MM isn't one of them.

 

[Maxperson]

The category I was referring to was joining the angry & the frustrated.

You were very unclear.

I'm neither & not likely to become.
Through their surveys I've told WoTC what I want - a dedicated Monster Manual volume every 12-18 months that includes all the monsters released through the adventures since the last volume. I've also told them that if they don't include the monsters from the adventures that I'll happily pirate those pages (and I do) because I'm not spending the $ on an adventure I don't need or care about for a couple of pages. And I'll tell them this again in future surveys.
Well, I'm kinda getting it - Volos, Mordenkanians.

In the meantime I'll just keep happily running/playing 5e, pirating pages, & hoping that the next book they announce will be my dedicated MM2 or whatever they want to call it.

There's plenty of things for me to be angry & frustrated over, but WoTC not giving me another pure MM isn't one of them.

I just now bought books and am looking to start running 5e. There wasn't enough crunch before now, and I don't intend to buy any adventure paths, because I got the content in the other books. The path they are on now is too far the other direction from 3e and 4e, which put out too much content. There is a fine middle ground that they missed with yet another of WotC's overreactions.

 

[Parmandur]

You were very unclear.



I just now bought books and am looking to start running 5e. There wasn't enough crunch before now, and I don't intend to buy any adventure paths, because I got the content in the other books. The path they are on now is too far the other direction from 3e and 4e, which put out too much content. There is a fine middle ground that they missed with yet another of WotC's overreactions.

Arguably they have found the middle path and are following it: we are in the fifth year of releases now, and there hasn't been a major product release schedule overhaul.

They have said that their market research shows that the few books a year plan works best for folks budget and attention span.

 

[Ancalagon]

Having read Jester's PF2 review one thing that struck me was the magic item choosing for treasure. It is a rethemed magic mart.

Having actual random treasure creates interesting changes in characters. As they level they adapt to the treasure they have found. In contrast to going through the items and picking out the ones they want for their build.

I have a feeling that many who find character advancement dull are also ones who pick their magic Items. That to me is a dull way to play the game. Magic Items should be exciting.

If you pick, people take stat boosting items, save boosting items, and AC boosting items. Maybe some cheap healing and magical weapons. Every time.

 

[Maxperson]

Arguably they have found the middle path and are following it: we are in the fifth year of releases now, and there hasn't been a major product release schedule overhaul.

They have said that their market research shows that the few books a year plan works best for folks budget and attention span.

Just because some people are playing half-starved, doesn't mean that they don't want to eat a bit more.

I've seen a lot of people say that want more crunch than is being released now. If it was a few books a year of crunch, that would be fine. It's not, though. It tends to be a few books a year of fluff with a smidge of crunch that they then cobble together after a few years and make a book out of, selling it to people twice. In 4 years, we've gotten 2 monster books with a few races/subraces in them and Xanthar's, which is mostly reprinted stuff. That's not cool.

 

[Parmandur]

Just because some people are playing half-starved, doesn't mean that they don't want to eat a bit more.

I've seen a lot of people say that want more crunch than is being released now. If it was a few books a year of crunch, that would be fine. It's not, though. It tends to be a few books a year of fluff with a smidge of crunch that they then cobble together after a few years and make a book out of, selling it to people twice. In 4 years, we've gotten 2 monster books with a few races/subraces in them and Xanthar's, which is mostly reprinted stuff. That's not cool.

That's not accurate: XGtE has 31 Subclasses, 4 of whom were reprinted from SCAG. That's several pages of reprinted material, the rest of the book is new (unless you count playtests as releases, in which case WotC is pumping out melaterial anyways). The books are fluffy, with an emphasis on producing crunch grounded in narratives. This is, again, responding to market demand, not some cruel cosmic joke they are doing because they don't like money.

 

[Maxperson]

That's not accurate: XGtE has 31 Subclasses, 4 of whom were reprinted from SCAG. That's several pages of reprinted material, the rest of the book is new (unless you count playtests as releases, in which case WotC is pumping out melaterial anyways). The books are fluffy, with an emphasis on producing crunch grounded in narratives. This is, again, responding to market demand, not some cruel cosmic joke they are doing because they don't like money.

Quite a bit comes from the Unearthed Arcana as well. I count giving us something to pay for that they already gave us as duplicating material in print. It's also not a whole heck of a lot, as evidenced by how small Xanthar's actually is. It's a very thin book.

And I get that the market demanded less than 4e and 3e, but I've seen a ton of people in the same boat that I'm in. They went too far the other direction, which isn't a first from WotC. They did the same with bounded accuracy and bounded it too tightly. They did the same with the switch from 3e to 4e, going too far away from the issues of 3e and creating even more problems for themselves. WotC needs to learn moderation and stop with the overreaction.

We've had 3 books of crunch in 4 years, and a lot of that is re-printed material. Not good.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

Part of the reason I jumped from PF to 5E was the slower release schedule of Crunch. Both in money spent, and in keeping up with all the stuff in the game. The marketing of the game is for more casual players and a lot of new people. The lower level of crunch is perfect for that market.

And if more crunch is desired, A number of 3rd party people have put out some very good books. Kobold with their Midgard books, and the Scarred Lands players guide have a lot of new stuff - and that is just scratching the surface of what is out there (not even looking at the DMs guild).

 

[CapnZapp]

We've had 3 books of crunch in 4 years, and a lot of that is re-printed material. Not good.

My problem is that too many people don't distinguish between "flabby crunch" and "sharp crunch".

More subclasses is (relatively) easy to produce. They increase choice - but not complexity. (Except in the narrow sense that you CAN multiclass into the new subclass)

What I want the most is crunch that increases build complexity for all characters, including existing ones for which more subclasses do nothing at all.

Why? Because we've got next to nothing of that kind.

I am not opposed to more subclasses.

I am opposed to getting ONLY subclasses - getting only breadth-crunch and no deep-crunch.

 

[Maxperson]

My problem is that too many people don't distinguish between "flabby crunch" and "sharp crunch".

More subclasses is (relatively) easy to produce. They increase choice - but not complexity. (Except in the narrow sense that you CAN multiclass into the new subclass)

What I want the most is crunch that increases build complexity for all characters, including existing ones for which more subclasses do nothing at all.

Why? Because we've got next to nothing of that kind.

I am not opposed to more subclasses.

I am opposed to getting ONLY subclasses - getting only breadth-crunch and no deep-crunch.

I can understand that. So you want more things like feats and such that a variety of classes can take? I'd like that, too. I definitely don't mind absolute craptons of subclasses, though. They make achieving whatever character concept I have in mind much easier to accomplish. Yes, I could create a character who is an explorer of new territories with just the ranger class(natural explorer helps), but having a full on Explorer subclass would be much closer to the concept. I very much enjoy the "flabby" crunch.

Edit:added in the bold where it was supposed to exist, but didn't.