Anyone else think Skill Points are... wierd?

[Zadam]

If the orc warrior has been living off the land, he should be a ranger (or at least an expert). That gives him six skill points per level to begin with, four after Intelligence adjustment.

Also, I think you are misunderstanding what skill points are supposed to represent. They're supposed to represent training, not talent. Since your orc warrior is stupid as a brick, it just takes a lot longer for him to train himself (or have someone else train him) to do things. He might have natural talent (read: bonuses in other ability scores) that compensate in part for the lack of training, but he'll still have a very hard time learning new things.

OK, I understand that SP's represent training, however, training to jump further would probably involve things such as jumping over and over again, and strengthening your legs etc. I don't really see how intelligence would have any effect over this. Likewise, how do you "train" yourself to have better hearing/vision (for listen and spot)?

Maybe you are right and the character should be a Ranger in the example given, but still, I'm sure there are situations where having your physical based skills restricted due to a lack of intelligence doesn't make complete sence...

 

[Caeleddin]

*shrugs*

A dumb character wouldn't know what is EFFECTIVE training. Chowing down on Big Macs to increase jumping distance is not gonna cut it.

 

[Crothian]

OK, I understand that SP's represent training, however, training to jump further would probably involve things such as jumping over and over again, and strengthening your legs etc. I don't really see how intelligence would have any effect over this. Likewise, how do you "train" yourself to have better hearing/vision (for listen and spot)?

You have to be smart enough to figure out how to train.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I agree with the threads creator that it does seem strange. Possibly the best solution (for realism not game balance) would be to not have any stat add on to the skill points gained every level. And increase the number of skill points certain (maybe all) classes get per level.

 

[Caeleddin]

And let Int be another dump stat for every class barring the Wizard.


All of a sudden, the multiverse is swamped by a bunch of drooling, monster bashing PCs....

 

[Aus_Snow]

All of a sudden? That was the bit that didn't work for me.

 

[Caeleddin]

Well, I, for one, put a HIGH stat into Int every time. Usually in the region of 14 or 16. For example, with the 13 -> 18 array I rolled up for my back up character, I created an Aasimar Cle/Sorc 3/4, aiming for MysTh. Her stats are:

Str: 13
Con: 14
Dex: 17+1(stat bonus)
Int: 18
Wis: 16+2(race)
Cha: 15+2(race)

Int is usually the second or third highest base stat for me, if not the highest. I like lots of skill points, especially if I have to cross-class almost everything.

If skill points are not Int based, all of a sudden, her Int drops to 13 and something else takes that slot (probably Wis). The average IQ of the multiverse will drop significantly if that is implemented.

 

[Crothian]

and that's how people who want skill points do it

 

[Celebrim]

OK, I understand that SP's represent training, however, training to jump further would probably involve things such as jumping over and over again, and strengthening your legs etc. I don't really see how intelligence would have any effect over this. Likewise, how do you "train" yourself to have better hearing/vision (for listen and spot)?

Have you ever coached football, or for that matter do you follow sports like football and basketball to any degree? It's not a coincidence that some of the best atheletes in the game are also some of its better spoken. Players like Michael Jordon, Tim Duncan, or David Robinson excel in large part not just because of thier exceptional physical talents, but because of thier drive, initiative, and understanding of the game. There have been men of equal atheletic ability playing the game as Jordon (Sean Kemp comes to mind), but noone of his combination of atheletic ability and intelligence. In football, you are continually hearing about quarterbacks and wide recievers, who, though they possess the necessary speed, agility, strength and height to play the position at the highest level lack the mental skills to develop thier talents - while at the same time men of lesser stature and speed make the pro-bowl because of thier greater awareness and decision making ability on the field.

I think maybe the problem is that you equate intelligence solely with the sort of mental abilities displayed by the sort of nerds who enjoy role playing games (like me), but I think that in fact intelligence is a much broader characteristic which encompasses the capacity to learn skills and apply oneself to any task. And, I don't think that this is something any further removed from real life than having a single number represent strength (which is ridiculous because thier is a tremendous difference between being strong and being powerful), or a single number represent dexterity.

 

[Felnar]

You have to be smart enough to figure out how to train.

so is the 8 int half-orc barbarian is too stupid to hire an athletic trainer and dietician?
if he did, would you give him bonus SP's to use for jump?
seems reasonable, but for the sake of simplicity/balance we dont allow that.
that's more of a Ultima Online style skill system anyway.

- Felnar