mamba
Hero
he can always tell the 'armed thugs' to contact his lawyer, they seemed pretty respectful for the term armed thug...
WotC Anyone Else Tired of the Wizards Bashing?
- Thread starter Rushbolt
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As long as people get the product they want.30th, OGL, Pinkerton.
Man, what a great company to give luxury funds to.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
By packaging, do you mean shipping crates or the foil packs? (I would hope both.)
And if I were WotC, I would be considering whether there's a way to do a discreet stamp of some sort on the cards as well.
TheSword
Legend
You really don’t have to. Plenty of the rest of us will, if they make great products.30th, OGL, Pinkerton.
Man, what a great company to give luxury funds to.
mamba
Hero
So when I agree with WotC I am shill for them and when I disagree it is still not ok
I don't care whether they apologized. From a damage control perspective it is the right thing to do. That does not mean I have to consider what they did wrong.
FitzTheRuke
Legend
WotC doesn't believe he committed a crime AFTER they finally spoke to him about it. It seems that they REALLY THOUGHT that he was some kind of mastermind before they finally got ahold of him and found out what had actually happened. Talk about egg on their face!
trappedslider
Legend
MTG fans when the 30th anniversary was released:30th, OGL, Pinkerton.
Man, what a great company to give luxury funds to.
fans move on other than making jokes
WotC messes with the OGL
Months later fans are still upset
Scribe
Legend
Oh I know, thats certainly how they want it.
Scribe
Legend
MTG fans when the 30th anniversary was released:
fans move on other than making jokes
Never underestimate the addiction of MTG players. I mean that quite seriously.
Bacon Bits
Hero
Yeah, but they do know about the complete debacle that was the Magic 30th Anniversary set. We've all but got confirmation that it didn't sell out; they just stopped selling it.
And they should know that Bank of America double-downgraded Hasbro to "underperform" after an in-depth analysis because they've been overprinting Magic so much. People are starting to quit the game because it's impossible to collect anymore. I keep getting flashbacks to the comics collapse in the 90s. A bunch of fans are still upset about Universes Beyond. Before the Pinkerton thing, all I knew about Aftermath was that it was a microset of 50 cards that made no sense unless you just assumed Hasbro was out whale hunting again.
Those were pretty big stories from last six months. Like Magic is not really feeling like a good game at the moment, in spite of how good the current set is. The same feeling of good development teams with terrible and shortsighted executive management is there, too.
Gradine
The Elephant in the Room (she/they)
While this is going horribly poorly I'll drop my two cents in.
I think it is definitely true that there is a strong contingent of TTRPG fans that will heavily attack D&D and Wizards of the Coast at every possible occasion. They will generally use the two (D&D & WotC) interchangeable, treat people who play D&D as idiot sheep who refuse to seek out "better" games, etc. Amusingly, from my perspective, is that this is not a politically homogenous group. A person in this mold made the comparison with Marvel and damn if that isn't the most apt comparison possible. Did you know that Marvel movies are both woke forced-diversity leftist bait AND, simultaneously, right-wing jingoistic military fetishism? D&D gets the same kind of treatment. And with respect to the members who qualify on this forum... you don't really matter, in the grand scheme of things. You are neither fans nor potential fans. You are noise shouting in the void.
Of course, there are also plenty of reasonable people who avoid D&D for all kinds of different reasons. As much as we could say "D&D is everything to everyone", the fact remains that D&D is a round peg, and while a lot of folks do a lot of hard, good work to fit that peg through as many holes as possible, it's not going to be the right fit for everyone (or every campaign). There are A LOT of really awesome games out in the world and to the people who are able to actually get folks to join along with them, I say kudos.
There are a group of people who might call themselves fans of D&D but not fans of WotC. I would count myself among them. There's a lot I love about the game. But Wizards... every time it seems they're going to take a step forward they take two steps back. It's been this way since the early days of 5e, with the awkward but well-intentioned gender-inclusive language and incredible diversity in art, coupled with teaming up with fascist reactionaries and serial abusers during the edition's launch (those of us with our original PHBs can still see those Special Thanks credits). For every meaningful, sincere attempt to improve the diversity of the hobby's biggest game, there came alongside the Vistani. And Chult. And the Book of Cylinders. And the Hadozee. And, yes, the Pinkertons.
If Wizards of the Coast wants to present themselves as a socially responsible and progressive company, and it is my belief that they sincerely do, then D&D fans need to raise their voices and insist they do better. That has, largely, what each of these incidences has boiled down to, once the more hard-hearted voices have been filtered out.
That's not "Wizards bashing". That's accountability.
I think it is definitely true that there is a strong contingent of TTRPG fans that will heavily attack D&D and Wizards of the Coast at every possible occasion. They will generally use the two (D&D & WotC) interchangeable, treat people who play D&D as idiot sheep who refuse to seek out "better" games, etc. Amusingly, from my perspective, is that this is not a politically homogenous group. A person in this mold made the comparison with Marvel and damn if that isn't the most apt comparison possible. Did you know that Marvel movies are both woke forced-diversity leftist bait AND, simultaneously, right-wing jingoistic military fetishism? D&D gets the same kind of treatment. And with respect to the members who qualify on this forum... you don't really matter, in the grand scheme of things. You are neither fans nor potential fans. You are noise shouting in the void.
Of course, there are also plenty of reasonable people who avoid D&D for all kinds of different reasons. As much as we could say "D&D is everything to everyone", the fact remains that D&D is a round peg, and while a lot of folks do a lot of hard, good work to fit that peg through as many holes as possible, it's not going to be the right fit for everyone (or every campaign). There are A LOT of really awesome games out in the world and to the people who are able to actually get folks to join along with them, I say kudos.
There are a group of people who might call themselves fans of D&D but not fans of WotC. I would count myself among them. There's a lot I love about the game. But Wizards... every time it seems they're going to take a step forward they take two steps back. It's been this way since the early days of 5e, with the awkward but well-intentioned gender-inclusive language and incredible diversity in art, coupled with teaming up with fascist reactionaries and serial abusers during the edition's launch (those of us with our original PHBs can still see those Special Thanks credits). For every meaningful, sincere attempt to improve the diversity of the hobby's biggest game, there came alongside the Vistani. And Chult. And the Book of Cylinders. And the Hadozee. And, yes, the Pinkertons.
If Wizards of the Coast wants to present themselves as a socially responsible and progressive company, and it is my belief that they sincerely do, then D&D fans need to raise their voices and insist they do better. That has, largely, what each of these incidences has boiled down to, once the more hard-hearted voices have been filtered out.
That's not "Wizards bashing". That's accountability.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
I'm not sure this exactly applies:
In this case, he did pay for merchandise, but got something different.FTC said:
It does sound like the FTC doesn't think he needed to give it back, though.
trappedslider
Legend
By the booster boxes, and booster packs I believe.
LeviKornelsen
Explorer
Yeah, it's a pain in the ass to parse the thing in this context, because the regulations were originally passed to stop mail fraud schemes and the like, but the key bit is that so far as the FTC is concerned, if someone mails you some stuff, that's your stuff now.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
And that's not unreasonable.
I think you send a charismatic young staffer with a big smile and a giant box of swag, offering to buy the foil packets and the boxes -- but not the cards, because their images are already all over YouTube and thus, the rest of the internet -- and all of this gets avoided.
But the desire to assuage someone's injured pride -- a WotC higher up, a Pinkerton who wanted his authority respected -- is where this all went wrong.
Persuasion rolls, people, not Intimidation! You've all played enough D&D to know which works better in the long run!
mamba
Hero
depends on what 'unordered' means, i.e. without ordering anything, or ordering something else but receiving the wrong product. I certainly had Amazon ask for things back when they sent the wrong thing...
Shardstone
Hero
I love how you spin arguments to fit your stance at any given moment.
trappedslider
Legend
yawn seeing what they have done with the Universe beyond stuff has actually cooled a lot of heads, no one really cares what ONE analysis said
the Warhammer set was "already on its fourth reprint", the LoTR set is already looking to be a big seller
MAGIC: THE GATHERING up 16% in the quarter due to strong demand for Phyrexia: All Will Be One and continued demand for Modern Horizons 2 and Warhammer 40K.
Shardstone
Hero
If its the right thing to do, why did they put out an apology for it?So when I agree with WotC I am shill for them and when I disagree it is still not ok
I don't care whether they apologized. From a damage control perspective it is the right thing to do. That does not mean I have to consider what they did wrong.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
If they genuinely thought that, then I go back to saying the problem is an internal one, and it's a biggie. How many times does product have to end up out on the street ahead of time before you get security cards, video cameras and bar code scanning for all your warehouse goods?
I temped for a vitamin company years ago -- way more boring than you could possible imagine -- and they had tighter inventory control of their supplements than WotC appears to have on their collectible product.
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