Anyone familiar with d20 Modern?

[RigaMortus2]

I am kind of confused about the rates of fire of certain weapons... Single Shot, Semi-Automatic, and Automatic. What do these allow? What feats enhance them? I searched through the Combat, Equipment and Feats section and they all seem to confuse me. So...

If I don't have any kind of special feats (other than the profieincy to use such a weapon):

How many shots per attack can I make with a Single Shot weapon?
How many rounds does it expend?
Can I modify this w/o any other feats?
What feats apply to Single Shot weapons?

How many shots per attack can I make with a Semi-Automatic weapon?
How many rounds does it expend?
Can I modify this w/o any other feats?
What feats apply to Semi-Automatic weapons?

How many shots per attack can I make with an Automatic weapon?
How many rounds does it expend?
Can I modify this w/o any other feats?
What feats apply to Automatic weapons?

The feats that confuse me (as far as which type of weapon you can apply them to) are Burst & Double Tap. Seems like you could Burst with a Semi and fully Automatic weapon. Seems like you can Double Tap with a Single Shot and Semi-Automatic weapon. But I may be reading this wrong.

Any help to clear this up for me would be appreciated...

 

[Funeris]

Single Shot: A weapon with the single shot rate of fire requires the user to manually operate the action (the mechanism that feeds and cocks the weapons) between each shot. Pump shotguns and bolt-action rifles are examples of firearms with single shot rates of fire. A weapon with the single shot rate of fire can fire only one shot per attack, even if the user has a feat or other abilities that normally allow more than one shot per attack.

Semiautomatic (S): Most firearms have the semiautomatic rate of fire. These firearms feed and themselves with each shot. A semiautomatic weapon fires one shot per attack (effectively acting as a single shot weapon), but some feats allow characters armed with semiautomatic weapons to fire shots in rapid successions, getting in more than one shot per attack.

Automatic (A): Automatic weapons fire a burst or stream of shots with a single squeeze of the trigger. Only weapons with the automatic rate of fire can be set on autofire or be used with feats that take advantage of automatic fire.

So, Single Shot is one Attack at your Maximum Bonus. It expends one round. How do you want to modify this with a feat? You cannot use Double Tap with a Single Shot weapon because you physically have to operate the weapon's mechanism. For a shotgun, you have to pump in between shots. For an old bolt-action rifle, you have to load the bolt (loading the bullet), take aim and fire. Then you have to pull the bolt back again, reload it and fire again. Etc.

A semi-automatic will fire as many times as you can pull the trigger in a round. This is based on your BAB first and foremost. If your BAB is +6/+1, then you can get two shots off in a round (assuming you have enough rounds in the magazine). Burst Fire is only applicable to Automatic Weapons. You can use Double Tap with semi-auto weapons, there by adding an extra attack.

Autofire
If a ranged weapon has an automatic rate of fire, a character may set it on autofire. Autofire affects an area and everyone in it, not a specific creature. The character targets a 10-foot-by-10-foot area and makes an attack roll; the targeted area has an effective Defense of 10. (If the character does not have the Advanced Firearms Proficiency feat, he or she takes a -4 penalty on the attack roll.) If the attack succeeds, every creature within the affected area must make a Reflex save (DC 15) or take the weapon's damage. Autofire shoots 10 bullets, and can only be used if the weapon has 10 bullets in it.

Autofire is not the same thing as Burst Fire, which involves firing a short burst at a specific target. Firing a burst requires the Burst Fire feat. If a character fires a blast of automatic fire at a specific target without the Burst Fire feat, it's treated as a standard attack. The attack, if successful, only deals normal damage-all the extra ammunition the character fired is wasted.

Some firearms-particularly machine guns-only have autofire settings and can't normally fire single shots.

Now, with autofire...if you use the Burst feat, you can cut the amount of bullets you waste down to 5 (or 3 if the weapon has a 3-bullet burst rate M16A2's have a 3 round burst in real life). But you also focus on one target, as opposed to a 10' by 10' area. Strafe is a feat you can use with automatic weapons as well. It allows you to change the AoE for an auto weapon to a 5' wide by 20' long area.

There are lots of feats that modify your ranged attack. There's a page in the d20 Modern book actually (in the equipment section near the end of the firearm section, I think) that gives you a chart with many of the feats and how they work/what they do.

I hope that helps...and wasn't too jarring. I keep getting interrupted. Damn work

~Fune

 

[RangerWickett]

If I don't have any kind of special feats (other than the profieincy to use such a weapon):

Also

Single Shot: A weapon with the single shot rate of fire requires the user to manually operate the action (the mechanism that feeds and cocks the weapon) between each shot. Pump shotguns and bolt-action rifles are examples of firearms with single shot rates of fire. A weapon with the single shot rate of fire can fire only one shot per attack, even if the user has a feat or other ability that normally allow more than one shot per attack.

Semiautomatic (S): Most firearms have the semiautomatic rate of fire. These firearms feed and themselves with each shot. A semiautomatic weapon fires one shot per attack (effectively acting as a single shot weapon), but some feats allow characters armed with semiautomatic weapons to fire shots in rapid successions, getting in more than one shot per attack.

Automatic (A): Automatic weapons fire a burst or stream of shots with a single squeeze of the trigger. Only weapons with the automatic rate of fire can be set on autofire or be used with feats that take advantage of automatic fire.

How many shots per attack can I make with a Single Shot weapon? - I may be getting the terminology wrong because I'm a bit in 3.5 mode, but basically as a standard action you can make one attack. If you make a full attack, you get as many attacks as your base attack bonus allows.

How many rounds does it expend? - 1 attack expends 1 round.

Can I modify this w/o any other feats? - Not that I recall.

What feats apply to Single Shot weapons? - None specifically.



How many shots per attack can I make with a Semi-Automatic weapon? - As a standard action you can make one attack. As a full attack you can make as many attacks as your base attack bonus allows.

How many rounds does it expend? - 1 attack expends 1 round.

Can I modify this w/o any other feats? - No.

What feats apply to Semi-Automatic weapons? - The Double Tap feat allows you to fire two bullets from a semi-automatic weapon while making only one attack. You take a -2 penalty to the attack, add one die of damage, and spend 2 bullets.



How many shots per attack can I make with an Automatic weapon? - Again, as a standard action you can make one attack. As a full round action you can make as many attacks as your base attack bonus allows.

How many rounds does it expend? - 10 rounds per attack, apparently. I would think there would be some way to use fewer bullets, but not that I see by the rules. Also, I've never used an automatic weapon, so I don't know how hard it is to be conservative with the ammo. It seems that, normally, firing an automatic weapon for any purpose other than autofire (fill a 10 x 10 area with bullets, forcing a Reflex DC 15 save to avoid damage) is a waste.

Can I modify this w/o any other feats? - You can choose to use 10 bullets to attack 1 target, or use 10 bullets to attack an area. Those are you only options.

What feats apply to Automatic weapons? - The Burst Fire feat allows you to spend 5 rounds (or 3 rounds for some weapons) to use a precise version of autofire, aimed at a single target, dealing more damage than with single bullets. Additionally, Strafe lets you change the shape of your autofire, but it's a crappy feat, and illogically designed.



Basically, single shot refers to something like a revolver. You can fire it fast, but not as fast as a semi-automatic. With a normal modern pistol, you only need to pull the trigger to shoot, and you don't have to anything.

I will say, given that d20 Modern is supposed to handle action movie style combat, it sucks at it. I've played in a campaign for nearly a year now, and we're consistently underwhelmed by how guns compare to melee weapons. It's been a long time since I've played any other games with guns, though, so I don't know what games handle it better.

 

[Funeris]

I have to disagree with Wickett on the Single Shot weapon bit. A Revolver is actually defined as Semi-automatic. A Derringer, on the other hand, is a Single Shot. My reading of it is that a Single Shot can only fire once (expending one bullet, cartridge, etc.) in a round, despite however many attacks your BAB grants you. I think it means: If using a Single Shot weapon, then you must use your full attack bonus for one shot, and that's it.

Its just my interpretation, though. I don't see the point of having two different categories if a Single Shot weapon can be used four times in a round. That would make it Semi-Automatic...pull the trigger four times, you fire four shots. But with a shotgun (pump action anyway) you have to stop to pump. That takes up a portion of your 6 second round. So, you'd only get one shot at your full attack bonus.

Anyway, Wickett's been playing Modern longer than I, so I should probably defer to his judgement.

And, Maybe this should be moved to the Rules Forum?

~Fune

 

[Funeris]

Quick clarification: By Shotgun (pump) above, I'm speaking specifically of the Browning which is defined as Single Shot.

And don't worry, this all confuses me too.

~Fune

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I read somewhere that a single-shot weapon can be fired multiple times per round (based on BAB) but can't be used with feats like Double Tap.

To be honest, it's never been an issue. I've never seen anyone use a single shot weapon.

I don't find firearms weak, you just need different tactics for them. Bigger maps, and Inspiration help. (The latter can give up to a +3 bonus to hit, nearly cancelling the penalty of using Burst Fire. That's a lot more powerful tha an Inspiration/Power Attack combo.) I'm also working on firearm feats for the neglected pistol, shotgun and SMG.

 

[RangerWickett]

Ah, good point on the revolver thing.

But anyway, the rules are silly, what with their multiple attacks per round. I like how a 1st level character can squeeze the trigger on an AK and fire 10 rounds in six seconds, but a 20th level character can squeeze the trigger and fire 40 rounds (four attacks). Well, that's assuming the weapon had a 40-round clip, but anyway, the rules are buggered.

 

[RangerWickett]

Best house rule I implemented? When using autofire, your attack roll sets the Reflex save DC. This actually lets squads of soldiers threaten heroes with Evasion.

 

[Lukeworm]

I second RangerWickett about the single shot semi-automatic issue. The only game mechanic difrence between the two is the use of the Double Tap feat.
This alow an attack made with a weapon fired in semi-automatic rate and at least two bullets in it's magazine to fire two rapid shots at the same target as one attack. This attack is at -2 to hit and do 1 extra dice of damage.

As (Psi)SeveredHead noted single shot weapons are not common in a "standard" D20 Modern setting, IIRC only two such weapons are listed in the D20 M equipment chapter. This may be a biger issue in a past or post apocaliptic setting.

 

[Funeris]

I'm snagging that houserule, RW.

And I agree...the rules are silly (which explains my constant state of confusion).

~Fune