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Anyone have Alter Self strategy notes?

The Souljourner

First Post
Alter Self + Hat of Disguise is a great combo, one my Bard used to great effect.

Troglodyte is definitely the best Monster Manual Humanoid to alter into. As has been said, you definitely don't get the stats of the thing you change into... that's the purview of Polymorph, after all.

-The Souljourner
 

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RigaMortus

Explorer
The Souljourner said:
Alter Self + Hat of Disguise is a great combo, one my Bard used to great effect.

Troglodyte is definitely the best Monster Manual Humanoid to alter into. As has been said, you definitely don't get the stats of the thing you change into... that's the purview of Polymorph, after all.

-The Souljourner

I thought like-effects don't stack? Like, you can't get the benefits of two Endure Elements (Cold) for example...

If you Alter Self into a Trog, then use the Hat to change into an Elf, won't you just become an Elf? Thus getting rid of any benefits/drawbacks the previous Trog form gave you?
 

Scion

First Post
No, should stack fine. At that point you would have certain abilities of the trog (actual change) and just 'look' like the elf (glamor).
 

Psiblade

First Post
I personally agree that the trog is the best because you still keep your ability scores with alter self and get +6 natural armor. Lizardman is also nice for the +5 natural armor and +8 racial bonus to swim. :) I have also used the hat of disguise trick with alter self. You can gain AC while still able to conduct diplomacy.

-Psiblade
 

Yeah, I was thinking trogs look like the best general bet. Fortunately, it just so happens that my Druid/Wizard is a Druid/Illusionist, and that the party happens to have acquired a Hat of Disguise recently!

Somewhat OT but in response to Shallown's question:
So far the Druid/Wizard has worked out very well. Although I have been paranoid about getting hit, that's just due to my dumb luck--I have rolled four 1's for hit points in a row (on 2 d8s and 2 d4s). Fortunately I have a 12 Con, but still, my Drd3/Wiz3 has 22 hp. Thank goodness for that max 8 at first level. Anyway, my main strategy is to have my animal companion, which is actually pretty buff, do most of the fighting per se. It's a riding dog stat-wise but of course the human can't actually use it as a mount. I have put enough ranks into Handle Animal skill to make training and handling her easy. She is so effective in combat (The Trip ability, which can be used as per Wolf if learned as a trick, is the bomb) that the party jokes that I'm playing a dog with a human companion, i.e. the Drd/Wiz. My SOP is to milk the share spells feature to use ability, AC, and illusion-related buffs and protection so they apply to both the dog and the Drd/Wiz. I'm not "wasting time" casting these spells in combat because the dog is fighting. The dog virtually always stays within 5 feet to keep the shared spells and to protect the caster. When the Drd/Wiz decides to attack, it's usually with with Produce Flame, because it allows for a few rounds' worth of touch attacks, usable up to 120' away with no range penalty, and allows taking other actions (using the other hand) in lieu of hurling flame on a given round without disrupting or wasting the spell (unless entire minutes elapse). The familiar is a sea eagle (stats as per hawk), which works great as a scout. I think it's a good strategy for a Druid/Wizard to pick a combat-capable animal companion to complement a scouting familiar. Although I think it's better not to overload the party with a Druid's animal friendship menagerie as in previous editions, having 2 animal allies (familiar and companion) instead of just one has nice flavor. Remember also that you can share spells with BOTH the familiar AND the companion.

Okay, that's going a bit overboard, perhaps. If anyone wants any other info based on Druid/Wizard experience (e.g. statblocks, spell list) I can put it in another thread.

Cheers,
 

Shallown

First Post
Well Magus You can't really hi-jack your own thread so that wasn't overboard. Did some research and these are the numbers I found.
Things in the SRD you can become with alterself but only listed the best of duplicated abilities. Alter self can cover lots of useful areas. Don't forget that some PHB races as useful abilities which I didn't include.

Alter self notes

Bug bear
+3 nat +4 move silent

Merfolk
Swim 50 ft
Amphibious
+8 swim take 10 on checks run as well.

Ogre
+5 nat
Large
40 ft move
Merrow above + 40 ft swim, 30 ft land move Aquatic no swim checks.

Trogs
Stench - GM's may not allow but seems like you could do it.
+4 hide +8 rock/underground
Multi attack feat
+6 nat
2 Claws 1d4, bite 1d4


Swirfneblin
+2 stone cut
+2 saves
+4 dodge bonus
+2 listen alchemy
+2 hide +4 underground

Goblin
Small bonuses
+4 move silent/Ride

Lizard folk
+5 nat
2 claw 1d4 bite 1d4
Hold Breath X 4
+4 balance, Jump, Swim


Some are more useful depending on your goal. Being able to swim and such would be very useful at times.

Thanks for the info.

Unfortunately I don't get animal companions though I have a trained Guard Dog. My Gm has allowed me to change out abilities instead of getting animal empathy I can talk to spirits in objects places. Has proved cool and useful so far. Though when I tell my party that the abondoned (supposedly haunted) house is unhappy they don't get it.

How does the spell synergy work. I am getting a Weasal as a Familiar since I plan to go Mystic theurge and it won't get the better advanced powers.

What are your long term plans for the character in the sense of casting and Personal growth. Is he a supportive character? what roll does he fill party wise?

Just being nosy

later
 

Kalendraf

Explorer
Shallown said:
Ogre
+5 nat
Large
40 ft move
Merrow above + 40 ft swim, 30 ft land move Aquatic no swim checks.

Ogres have creature type of Giant and as such are not legal options for a humanoid with alter self. Maybe your DM has house-ruled they are just large humanoids?
 



Shallown

First Post
Okay was thinking and I wondered if anyone has ideas for using alter self on your familiar. (A you target spell becomes a touch to familiars so he can leave the 5 foot range only he has the spell)

Are there cool magical beast I could turn him into.

Thanks
 

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