Anyone want to help adjudicate a Wish spell?

[Veril]

It's clear that you want it to work. So let it work. You are the referee after all. You and the players both realise that what is required is well beyond the scope of a normal wish. In which case, it's time to pay the piper.

I would impose an immediate 5K XP cost on all of the people saved (i.e. as is each of them cast a wish), in addition to the usual 5K xp cost on the party sorceress for casting the wish.

Then switch back to game description.

Coughing and spluttering, our heroes vomit up the last of the deadly poison from the half iron golem as they make their way back to the beach. But they know that something is wrong, no one wish should have been able to save them. The universe has been twisted, and changed. Death has been cheated.

In a plane far far away, a place of slowly turning mechanical cogs, and ultimate mathematical symmetry, this twisting, this changeing of the universe is seen.
A figure, composed of wires, plates of steel cogs and sprokets beholds the events that have just unfolded. In a flat, emotionless voice it speaks
"Such actions imperil the universe. Such actions must not be. Death has been cheated. The scales are unbalanced. They must be balanced once more. This is Inevitable. This is the Law"

The figure reaches out it metallic clawed hand and flicks four switches. In this massive chamber in which the figure resides the translucent tops of four of the coffin like structures slowly swing open. four among many, four amongst hundreds, thousands. Smoke pores from these coffins as the lids swing open. lit by the icy blue light that shines forth from each one. As the smoke clears clinbing out of these containers come four figures. Humanoid, but seemingly constructed of mechanical parts, the onyx skin of these creatures is protected by the golden armour they wear. Moving with mechanical precision the four creatures come before the controller.

The controller meets the gaze of the first of the creatures and names one of our heroes. To the next it names another, and then another. To the last, the tallest and strongest, the controller speaks the name of the sorceress. The name of the one who violated the Law.

Having named the targets and discharged it's duties the controller turns it's attention back to other matters. Meanwhile the four mechanical creatures turn as one and make their way out of the room, beginning the search for their quarry, beginning the search for their prey. Sleeepless, indefatagable, relentless they come....


then move onto other things in the game. The party have been warned. And a kickarse encounter dispatched. 4 Inevitables (maruts from my descriptions) have been despatched, with the nastyiest one for the sorcress.

 

[Infiniti2000]

What's up with all of these people wanting wish to be a Save Game?

PC1: "Oh, we screwed that one up."
PC2: "No problem, I have Save Game prepared."
PC3: "Yeah, thanks to our DM's nice houserule."

"I wish I had a divine scroll with 3 True Resurrections", and then go find a cleric with Wis 19.

Why not just wish for a scroll of 30 true resurrections? Of course, that sucks up a ton of XP (14180), but hey you could do it.

 

[darthkilmor]

What's up with all of these people wanting wish to be a Save Game?

PC1: "Oh, we screwed that one up."
PC2: "No problem, I have Save Game prepared."
PC3: "Yeah, thanks to our DM's nice houserule."

PC1: "Hey, whats that group of men coming at us from over the hill..."
PC2: "Thats no man, thats a machine!"
PC3: "My liver! No! Darn inevitables not letting you toy with the nature of existence!"
ALL: "RUN AWAY!"

 

[Sejs]

What's up with all of these people wanting wish to be a Save Game?

PC1: "Oh, we screwed that one up."
PC2: "No problem, I have Save Game prepared."
PC3: "Yeah, thanks to our DM's nice houserule."

Maybe it's just me, but somehow I fail to see the dice not rolling high enough equating to "Oh, we screwed that one up." It's not like they died due to pulling some boneheaded maneuver and now want to restore a previous save game; the dice just didn't like them when they had to make their secondary poison save.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Maybe it's just me, but somehow I fail to see the dice not rolling high enough equating to "Oh, we screwed that one up." It's not like they died due to pulling some boneheaded maneuver and now want to restore a previous save game; the dice just didn't like them when they had to make their secondary poison save.

Actually, they did screw it up with extremely poorly planned tactics. Reread my post #24, part 2.

 

[Three_Haligonians]

What's up with all of these people wanting wish to be a Save Game?

PC1: "Oh, we screwed that one up."
PC2: "No problem, I have Save Game prepared."
PC3: "Yeah, thanks to our DM's nice houserule."

Why not just wish for a scroll of 30 true resurrections? Of course, that sucks up a ton of XP (14180), but hey you could do it.

I think Shadowdweller already made the point that one should not pre-emptively punish a player for abuse of the wish spell. My sorceroress is the character in question, and I can assure you that this is the first time I have gone outside the normal "safe" uses of the Wish spell. I would expect retribution for continually abusing the wish spells normal perameters, and I fully understood when I made the wish that I was effectively asking for three wishes in one (undoing a single recent misfortune), so I was expecting some kind of quirk. I like when DMs give their players a little credit. I mean, I'm not an idiot, I know that the game is only fun when your characters are in danger. My DM doesn't check my die rolls, why should he assume I'm going to start trying to over-power the wish spell every time I use it?

er... Please note that although we share an account, I am not the OP
and, I assumed I was allowed to read this now that we know we were using the 3.0 rules by accident, right J? Heh heh ....

R from Three Haligonians

 

[Sejs]

On Maruts:

"Maruts represent the inevitability of death. They confront those who would try to deny the grave itself.
Any who use unnatural means to extend their lifespan (such as a lich) could he targeted by a marut. Those who take extraordinary measures to cheat death in some other way (such as sacrificing hundreds of others to keep oneself safe from a plague) might be labeled transgressors as well. Those who use magic to reverse death (raise dead spells, for example) arn't worth of a marut's attention unless they do so repeatedly or on a massive scale."

 

[Infiniti2000]

I would expect retribution for continually abusing the wish spells normal perameters, and I fully understood when I made the wish that I was effectively asking for three wishes in one (undoing a single recent misfortune), so I was expecting some kind of quirk. I like when DMs give their players a little credit. I mean, I'm not an idiot, I know that the game is only fun when your characters are in danger.

That's where our opinions on the matter differ. You know you're abusing the wish spell and you 'promise' not to do it too much. Why would I as a DM give a player any credit when said player is not only asking me to break the rules, but expects me to break the rules? I would not screw the player over, but I would not grant the whole wish, using the partial fulfillment clause, not the screw-the-player-with-an-inane-quirk clause.

My DM doesn't check my die rolls, why should he assume I'm going to start trying to over-power the wish spell every time I use it?

Because you're trying to do it this time? Why wouldn't he think you'll continue your behavior, especially after he allows it? Really, I don't understand your denial in this case. For instance, if he caught you cheating on dice rolls like you are trying to cheat on the wish spell, shouldn't he closely monitor your dice rolls from then on? Or, should he believe that you won't cheat any more?

In any case, there's a lot of room for maneuvering on the part of the DM here. I don't really mean to sound like a jackass and rip your group apart. I don't like the idea of a marut or anything like that because it only reinforces the bad behavior. That sort of a penalty is only further adventuring and not a penalty at all. I can imagine the response of the players being, "Hey, we can keep doing that and get the XP to come to us!" Being the level you are at, you can't expect us to believe you are trying this wish for any reason other than cheating. You could easily get your compatriots raised, rezzed, or even true rezzed. I think you're looking at this wish as a free save game and nothing more.

 

[Three_Haligonians]

Why would I as a DM give a player any credit when said player is not only asking me to break the rules, but expects me to break the rules?

I'm not breaking any rules, as someone else pointed out. I am going outside the normal perameters of the Wish spell, which is a use outlined in the spell itself.

Being the level you are at, you can't expect us to believe you are trying this wish for any reason other than cheating. You could easily get your compatriots raised, rezzed, or even true rezzed. I think you're looking at this wish as a free save game and nothing more.

Thanks for the psychoanalysis. If I ever need a psychiatrist, I guess I know where to find one. As it happens, I could not easily raise my party members. Our cleric died. Our rogue with lots of ranks in Use Magic Device died. Earlier you insinuated that our party would be aware of the effects of the poison, and irresponsibly ignored them. As a matter of fact, I didn't make my Knowledge check on the golem. It would have been metagaming to think there would be secondary effects.

Furthermore, the PCs who died included a character I've known since 2nd level, my cohort, and my husband. I figured my character had enough emotional diress to try something a little risky. It is also the custom of my character to think that she is perhaps a little luckier than others (now a luck stealer), and the cosmos would accommodate her.

As a player, I expected a quirk (not an arbitrary quirk, I never said that). The OP said he uses the "path of least resistance". I would not have been surprised if the pcs came back with cloaks of resistance, instead of the new rings of protection they had previously purchased, or something of that ilk.

R from Three Haligonians

 

[rushlight]

First, I think the sorcerer should know what she's asking for exactly. You're not undoing one bad event - you're undoing three. You are *specifically* seeking a deal here, to save you XP and/or gold. The entire premise is not designed around a selfless act, it's built upon a desire to keep as much of what you have as possible - while getting the most of what you don't have as possible (i.e. the three dead people raised).

Given all that, it's the DMs job to decide how to handle your saving schemes. If he wants, he can just let it slide, under the impression that next time you'll pay the piper as you should. The way you should have the first time. I don't know you, so I can't verify that you'll go through with that. Infiniti2000 said:

You could easily get your compatriots raised, rezzed, or even true rezzed. I think you're looking at this wish as a free save game and nothing more.

...and I agree with him. Why haven't you persued another course? Why not use the myrad of other options available to you?

I can say that if I were you're DM, at best I just wouldn't allow it - and at worse I'd hit you with the XP penalty for creating 3 True Res scrolls PLUS the wish XP, since that is effectively what you're doing. Or activate three Raise Deads on your fallen comrades - and let them take the level loss. But then, I believe in maintaining balance to the game, so I wouldn't let you get everything for nothing anyway.