Apocalypic Questions

[ValhallaGH]

Highly unlikely.

Just because you can't get a new laptop doesn't mean that hoop skirts or bustles or whatever will come into fashion.
Society will be much more Mad Max than it will be 19th century. It's just that the technology will be an extremely odd mix of steam, circuits, and whatever works. Fashion choices will be similar to those of today, though with enough sense to have some extra layers to keep warm when it gets cold.

 

[Urizen]

The issue with a "society" falling backwards technologically speaking due to an extinction level event, is that, while the_ability_to make certain things goes away, the knowledge of how to make them doesn't necessarily vanish.

There are still libraries, plenty of dead tech to reverse engineer (to the point that someone could make a workable facimile), and people who survive carry their knowledge with them.

So, people living in a post apocalyptic world set in a distant future probably have some degree of knowledge of how to generate electricity, if only by using car batteries. Is it akin to Hoover dam? Nope, but I could see at least some low tech stuff along those lines.

After all, we're not talking about the people who were unable to survive, we're talking about people (or their descendants) who managed to get through the events which led to the fall of civilization as we know it with their skin intact (for the most part).

We're talking about survivors.

 

[ogre]

Though true, people would still remember tech, those that survive the 'event' will be the ones who will be too busy trying to survive to 'build a lightbulb' as someone mentioned. It's the following generations, I think, that will restart technology. So, at first, it will be a mishmash of no tech, high tech, then it will settle into tech that can be produced on the local level, 17-1900s (crude guns, steam power etc.). Society will revert to a feudal system, where the strongest rule over the weak. Energy will be controlled by those with power, workers will be the commodity. Slave trade?

I suppose a lot of it depends on when the game takes place. What generation? The generation in which it occured? The one after? 10 generations later?

 

[Arachnar]

I suppose a lot of it depends on when the game takes place. What generation? The generation in which it occured? The one after? 10 generations later?

1. How would it be right after the Apocalypse???.

2. How would it be for the Second generation???.

3. How would it be after 10 generations later???.

 

[ogre]

IMO, of course.
I think that to the generation the 'event' happens, these people will be fighting for survival. Normalcy, where you can safely raise a family within a community (a basic human need?), will be what they are trying to ultimately achieve. This initial 'society' would be madmax-like, full of gangs and countless groups, struggling in the same way (see Jeramiah the TV show). People eeking out livings, using whatever tech savvy they had to 'fix' stuff. There really wouldn't be the infrastructure needed to 'craft' complex things. Just simple nessecities.

To the second generation, you could imagine the previous generation to have made a foothold, and made communities (safe ones) that band together to fight off the other 'bad' (controlling, fear, power-hungry) organizations. If 'safety' was established enough, communities could support someone 'who tinkered with stuff', i.e. began rediscovering, reverse-engineering, reading a book- on how to build gasoline engines, or gun powder, or some other invention. The real powerful could be using left over tech (tanks, laser guns, freeze rays?)

By the 10th generation, you could imagine that citystates have emerged, which control near-by towns, which in turn control villages or farms. So there'd be more of a medival government, but with an infrastructure. Now the towns are like late 1800s and the world has reestablished itself, only with different rules (of course ;-) There could be brewers, dancers, muscians, and well established lines of artisanship, engine makers, steel foundries, glass cutters, perhaps even like present day, without computers or something.

Anyway, my point is, I beleieve it would take generations to re-establish what we would term a society. The path being something like survial-community-infrastructure-society-nations-tiny world syndrome(instantaneous death/communication across continents).

 

[Urizen]

IMO, of course.
I think that to the generation the 'event' happens, these people will be fighting for survival. Normalcy, where you can safely raise a family within a community (a basic human need?), will be what they are trying to ultimately achieve. This initial 'society' would be madmax-like, full of gangs and countless groups, struggling in the same way (see Jeramiah the TV show). People eeking out livings, using whatever tech savvy they had to 'fix' stuff. There really wouldn't be the infrastructure needed to 'craft' complex things. Just simple nessecities.

To the second generation, you could imagine the previous generation to have made a foothold, and made communities (safe ones) that band together to fight off the other 'bad' (controlling, fear, power-hungry) organizations. If 'safety' was established enough, communities could support someone 'who tinkered with stuff', i.e. began rediscovering, reverse-engineering, reading a book- on how to build gasoline engines, or gun powder, or some other invention. The real powerful could be using left over tech (tanks, laser guns, freeze rays?)

By the 10th generation, you could imagine that citystates have emerged, which control near-by towns, which in turn control villages or farms. So there'd be more of a medival government, but with an infrastructure. Now the towns are like late 1800s and the world has reestablished itself, only with different rules (of course ;-) There could be brewers, dancers, muscians, and well established lines of artisanship, engine makers, steel foundries, glass cutters, perhaps even like present day, without computers or something.

Anyway, my point is, I beleieve it would take generations to re-establish what we would term a society. The path being something like survial-community-infrastructure-society-nations-tiny world syndrome(instantaneous death/communication across continents).

Well said. I couldn't agree with this more.

 

[ValhallaGH]

I suppose a lot of it depends on when the game takes place. What generation? The generation in which it occured? The one after? 10 generations later?

1. How would it be right after the Apocalypse???.

2. How would it be for the Second generation???.

3. How would it be after 10 generations later???.

That depends upon the details of the Apocalypse. What type was it, how long did it last, how destructive was it, were any areas basically unaffected, how difficult was it to survive, how many survivors were there, what about animal and plant survival, how well did the ecosystem survive, etc.?

If it was a nuclear war, for example, then you'll end up with large areas that are uninhabitable, or only temporarily habitable. However, you'll probably have areas that were almost unaffected, directly. These areas will be as self-sustaining as they were before, have almost all of their previous local resources, and almost their entire population and infrastructure intact. These regions are probably rural, making them relatively self-sufficient and filled with the knowledge necessary to keep the population fed and warm through the early years. If they don't panic then they can maintain the same governmental structure they had before the 'event'.
This makes them a stable base to build a survivor community out of. Equip them with defenses, weapons, and a few brave members willing to venture into the temporarily habitable areas and they will be able to scavenge all sorts of oddities and treasures.

By their second generation they will be likely to have a thriving base working to maintain/replace the high tech that has worn out. So they'll be starting to manufacture weapons, light bulbs, and other 19th-20th century inventions. Airplanes will be rare because avionics is a very exact science that requires a lot of testing and patience to get off the ground (look into all the Wrights had to do, some time); however, if you can make two working planes then you can make planes until you hit a resource limit.
Alternatively, they could be running into population pressure issues, as the population has filled up the available "safe" land, making natural resources, living space, and mating patterns viable areas to make major changes. This scenario works best with an oligarchical, tyrannical, or theocratic government.

By their tenth generation they will either have plateaued or be advancing into whatever directions are most useful to them. Either way, this is beyond anyone's ability to accurately predict (just look at the predictions for where society would be from 10 generations ago). This long after the 'event', the world looks and works the way you say it does.

 

[JDJblatherings]

... communities could support someone 'who tinkered with stuff', i.e. began rediscovering, reverse-engineering, reading a book- on how to build gasoline engines, or gun powder, or some other invention. The real powerful could be using left over tech (tanks, laser guns, freeze rays?)foundries, glass cutters, perhaps even like present day, without computers or something.

Gasoline engines are meaningless without gasoline. An entire global industry makes gasoline.

A lot of what we think is easy or simple is only possible because there is a global civilization gathering raw materials, producing refined materials, growing food, producing energy, educating folks, producing finished products and allowing folks to easily communicate with millions of others.

Folks often site rural communities as being able to adapt and survive, few would. Many modern rural communites would blow away in the wind without the rest of the world out there producing logistical support. Many farm communites are often mono-cropping and don't produce enough food localy for a sustainable diet.

It took western european ciivlization hundreds of years to bounce back from the fall of the roman empire and all folks really lost then were the niceties of empire.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Many farm communites are often mono-cropping and don't produce enough food localy for a sustainable diet.

Yet the knowledge is certainly there, and the basic ability (seed crops, soil type, tools) is likely there. It's just not being used because it's an economically inferior option given the world economy.
Obviously this isn't true in every farming community but it's true enough to make it a viable premise for story purposes.

 

[JDJblatherings]

Yet the knowledge is certainly there, and the basic ability (seed crops, soil type, tools) is likely there. It's just not being used because it's an economically inferior option given the world economy.
Obviously this isn't true in every farming community but it's true enough to make it a viable premise for story purposes.

Knowldege is virtually worthless when it isn't coupled with resources of materials and time.

Folks growing sugar beets, cotton or tobbacco don't have a stockpile of wheat or soybeans on hand. Certainly one can have a nice rose-colored sunglasses view of the post apocalyptic civilization but it's going to be grim everywhere in every capacity.

Ever see Jerhico?

Once the fertilizers and insecticides are gone crop yields will drop. No gas for equipment and crop yields drop. Crop yields drop low enough and the population drops, but not before more death and suffering are inflicted on "survior' populations.
Read about famines in the 20th century and keep in mind these are generally caused by politics, imagine how much worse they could be caused by global war or other apocalyptic scenario.