Apocalypic Questions

[Tetsubo]

This is one of the reasons I don't think I would ever run a PA campaign that takes place during the Event. At least not a long term campaign. Just too darn depressing. Set it a few years or generations later and all of the really horrible survivor stories are just "history".

Though I always want to start a Cyberpunk campaign, have four or five "runs" and then drop the Zombie Apocalypse on the players head... Cybergeneration might be even better... the Carbon Plague "mutates"...

For a true Zombie Apocalypse check out Ross Campbell's -The Abandoned-.

 

[ValhallaGH]

Knowldege is virtually worthless when it isn't coupled with resources of materials and time.

Point to a single thing in my post that was written with "rose-colored glasses."

Folks growing sugar beets, cotton or tobbacco don't have a stockpile of wheat or soybeans on hand.

They'll generally have some (or one of their neighbors will, or someone will go get some, or they'll all die). It won't be enough, and the first crop will go almost entirely to next year's seed crop. But it's a start. And that's what surviving an apocalypse is about, starting.

it's going to be grim everywhere in every capacity.

What on Earth made you think I was saying otherwise?
I said it would be possible to survive. Not that it would be easy, safe, or any kind of enjoyable.

Once the fertilizers and insecticides are gone crop yields will drop.

Unless the survivors are industrious and knowledgable enough to start manufacturing replacements. They won't be easy to make and they won't be as good as what's in use today but they'll be better than the yields of the 16th century.
Further, more land will be brought into production than is currently in use, since there's less need for mini-malls and suburbs in the post-apoc world.

No gas for equipment and crop yields drop.

It's really surprising how many U.S. farms are already converted over to electrical or natural gas powered vehicles, because those resources are locally available (wind power and local deposits) in cheap quantities. So those farms will have the equipment to keep their yields up until they can arrange something that doesn't rely upon (now) irreplaceable parts.

Read about famines in the 20th century and keep in mind these are generally caused by politics, imagine how much worse they could be caused by global war or other apocalyptic scenario.

Yes, Stalin killed more of his people in five years than the entire third reich did, and he did it by starvation.
How famine will be worse for subsistence farmers when there is no one stealing their food than it was when someone was stealing their food is something I can't imagine. Maybe you can enlighten me.

 

[JDJblatherings]

Point to a single thing in my post that was written with "rose-colored glasses."

No insults meant at all. I just refered to a story/playstyle that wasn't grimly horribly realisitic as lokign at thigns thru rose colored galsses.

They'll generally have some (or one of their neighbors will, or someone will go get some, or they'll all die). It won't be enough, and the first crop will go almost entirely to next year's seed crop. But it's a start. And that's what surviving an apocalypse is about, starting.

If they don't have enough they eat all the crops and starve to death after that.

Unless the survivors are industrious and knowledgable enough to start manufacturing replacements. They won't be easy to make and they won't be as good as what's in use today but they'll be better than the yields of the 16th century.
Further, more land will be brought into production than is currently in use, since there's less need for mini-malls and suburbs in the post-apoc world.

Most of the formerly good farmland near me is covered in housing developments or forest. It'll be a lot of work before that land is useable for farming ever again. If there is a nuclear winter or dust storm winter there will be no crop yields to speak of.

How famine will be worse for subsistence farmers when there is no one stealing their food than it was when someone was stealing their food is something I can't imagine. Maybe you can enlighten me.

If a whole lot people don't die right away there will be a LOT of people trying to steal everyones food. Large enough pockets of survivors and there will be governments of sorts that will be "stealing" from farmers. How do you tend your fields when you have to seriously worry about a neighbor or vagabond stealng your food?

Most westerners don't stockpile enough food. The average area has enough food for 3 days. It takes weeks to starve to death. If only 1 in 100 people survive the apocalypse event then a city the size of new york will still have about 100,000 people looking for food. Good luck to a small community trying to hold off that sort of desperate population. Picture those poor folks in New Orleans during the katrina disaster, what would that have looked like if government and neighbor help never arrived? The whole planet could be that bad off if not worse.


I'm with Tetsubo it's more fun to play PA adventuring a long time after the fall of civilization and not to dwell too much on what generation 0 and 1 would have been like.

 

[Tetsubo]

No insults meant at all. I just refered to a story/playstyle that wasn't grimly horribly realisitic as lokign at thigns thru rose colored galsses.



If they don't have enough they eat all the crops and starve to death after that.



Most of the formerly good farmland near me is covered in housing developments or forest. It'll be a lot of work before that land is useable for farming ever again. If there is a nuclear winter or dust storm winter there will be no crop yields to speak of.




If a whole lot people don't die right away there will be a LOT of people trying to steal everyones food. Large enough pockets of survivors and there will be governments of sorts that will be "stealing" from farmers. How do you tend your fields when you have to seriously worry about a neighbor or vagabond stealng your food?

Most westerners don't stockpile enough food. The average area has enough food for 3 days. It takes weeks to starve to death. If only 1 in 100 people survive the apocalypse event then a city the size of new york will still have about 100,000 people looking for food. Good luck to a small community trying to hold off that sort of desperate population. Picture those poor folks in New Orleans during the katrina disaster, what would that have looked like if government and neighbor help never arrived? The whole planet could be that bad off if not worse.


I'm with Tetsubo it's more fun to play PA adventuring a long time after the fall of civilization and not to dwell too much on what generation 0 and 1 would have been like.

But that food in NYC is 3 days supply for 10 million people. Divide that up between a 100,000 and it goes a lot further. Far enough that you might get a crop going in the green spaces within the city. And you have the entire city to loot for trade goods for those that live outside the city and have farm land. Not all sweetness and light but a lot better off then 10 million people eating up that 3 day supply... who quickly start eating each other...

During WW II in Stalingrad it was said that you always feared the well fed man. It was a sign that he was a cannibal...

 

[ValhallaGH]

... stuff ...

I disagree.
...
I can't think of another response that isn't at least half insulting, so I'll just stop with that one.



Almost every apocalypse ever dreamed up can be survived. It wont be easy, nor necessarily common, but it's possible.

For more on a first generation aftermath, you may want to check out Pinnacle Entertainment Group's Hell on Earth setting. It combines a couple of the more popular apocalypses into a unique, yet representative, example of how the world can end and what the survivors can do about it. It's the most post-world fun I've ever had.
Darwin's World is also a lot of fun, though I don't have enough experience with the setting to tell you when it takes place (only played 1.5 sessions).

 

[JDJblatherings]

But that food in NYC is 3 days supply for 10 million people. Divide that up between a 100,000 and it goes a lot further. Far enough that you might get a crop going in the green spaces within the city. And you have the entire city to loot for trade goods for those that live outside the city and have farm land. Not all sweetness and light but a lot better off then 10 million people eating up that 3 day supply... who quickly start eating each other...

During WW II in Stalingrad it was said that you always feared the well fed man. It was a sign that he was a cannibal...

Wreck up enough stuff to kill 99% of the population and a lot of food is getting lost also. A super quick plague and the survivors would be in luck.

Yes, watch out for well fed men inviting you to dinner.

 

[JDJblatherings]

I disagree.
...
I can't think of another response that isn't at least half insulting, so I'll just stop with that one.



Almost every apocalypse ever dreamed up can be survived. It wont be easy, nor necessarily common, but it's possible.

For more on a first generation aftermath, you may want to check out Pinnacle Entertainment Group's Hell on Earth setting. It combines a couple of the more popular apocalypses into a unique, yet representative, example of how the world can end and what the survivors can do about it. It's the most post-world fun I've ever had.
Darwin's World is also a lot of fun, though I don't have enough experience with the setting to tell you when it takes place (only played 1.5 sessions).

I'd just say you have a more positive outlook on things then I do. Our communities and the people in them only exsist as they do now becasue there is a whole world out there, without all that there the abilitiy to apply knowldege and make use of resources is horribly altered. I'd warrant small remote virutally untouched communities would go thru a whole lot of heartbreak as they'd get to experience human nature virutally untouched by the destruction others would have suffered.

I've been playing postapocalyptic RPGs for almost 30 years now and I'd certainly recomend the two games you mentioned. AFTERMATH is an oldie but a goodie that is worth reading even if the game itself can be a bit cumbersome at times it still contains a wealth of information. "Farm, Forge and Steam" is a good read also on food production and applications of technology.