Appearence and Player Shallowness

[Trainz]

Ok, maybe it's a "guy thing" since I don't feel the same , but how would you do it for people who are suspicious of what they are attracted to (and there's a fair number of them)? Simple inversion? -2 instead of +2?

Oh you could... but I wouldn't want to complicate something that I would like to keep simple.

I and my friend DM alternatively. I sent him the system I posted above and he thinks it's too complicated.

I'm going to test it in my game. Just for shoots and giggles. To see how it works out.

 

[RingXero]

can't we just call this comeliness like it was in 1e?

We came up with a method back then on how to modify the comeliness score based off of con str dex and (to a lesser extent) cha, instead of just rolling it straight out, I'll try and find it/update it.

There was also a campaign specific relationship table that would modify the score in relation to other races. (as in a well groomed bearded female dwarf with a 16 comeliness wouldn't get the full benefit when dealing with an elf, etc...)

Fond memories of a players character that had an 18 comeliness and seriously low cha wis and int, boy was that fun.


RX

 

[ciaran00]

My god do I hate White Wolf influenced character descriptions like "green eyes and braided gold hair" etc. etc. All the core races in my game EXCEPT for drow are these abberational entities (much to my liking). My new player, being used to RPGA and other soul-sucking pasttimes wanted to desperately pick drow (as expected) but eventually settled on mul upon advice by my other players.

I do see the humour of the original poster's observations. Superficiality tends to take over character (at least in roleplay). Just what I tend to see.

ciaran

 

[ARandomGod]

My god do I hate White Wolf influenced character descriptions like "green eyes and braided gold hair" etc. etc. All the core races in my game EXCEPT for drow are these abberational entities (much to my liking). My new player, being used to RPGA and other soul-sucking pasttimes wanted to desperately pick drow (as expected) but eventually settled on mul upon advice by my other players.

I do see the humour of the original poster's observations. Superficiality tends to take over character (at least in roleplay). Just what I tend to see.

ciaran

Interesting thoughts, all.
Personally I would either favor a straight out additional skill added to the point buy system, as first suggested. Or, my own personal favorite idea, would be to add the three physical stats together, then add charisma, then divide by four, and add the charisma modifier to the total.
Yes, I realize that makes charisma a significant part, but I like that.
Or add the three physical, divide by three, and add the charisma mod.

 

[JimAde]

I think a comeliness stat can be worthwhile. Especially if your game is more RP-heavy and shorter on the "kill the monsters and take their stuff" aspect. At the risk of turning D&D into Champions, you could do this (for point buy only):

Comeliness is a 7th stat, but is only worth half as many points. It starts at 8 and you increase your point-buy pool by 1, so if the extra point goes to compeliness you get a 10. A given stat level costs half what it would for any other stat. Regular campaign maximum applies. Reducing it only nets you half as many points, too.

Then in-game, you do everything normally unless the DM rules the situation would use your comeliness modifier instead of Charisma. In most cases, the player could always choose to use Charisma, but could use Comeliness by taking a different tack.

Against targets who don't normally favor your race you would get a penalty, but I think that would be true even without a new stat.

And trying to use your Comeliness modifier with someone who is not attracted to your particular gender would be highly amusing

 

[Tuzenbach]

Call me archaic, but I'm still using the subabilties from late 2E. You know, the old "Appearance" & "Personality" within the context of Charisma thing? It works quite well.

 

[CombatWombat51]

The problem of using an average of existing ability scores is that having a high Comliness becomes damn near impossible. Either rolling it seperately (point buy or not), or using some other method would be best, assuming that Com had little to no game effect.

IMC, we use Comliness (with no game effect). We start with 10, and Con and Cha mods. Though it practically never comes up, we've been using practically the same system forever for determining Comliness. The DM I stole it from just averaged Con and Cha, and that works about the same. He also averaged Int and Wis for Perception checks... I fondly remember my dumb fighter never noticing a thing.

 

[Al]

I use a similar system, but I don't use point-buy, so Appearance is just plain 3d6+Cha mod. Mechanics-wise, it has no game impact: I found the idea of building a complex set of rules about attraction, subjectivity and inter-racial relations prohibitively complicated when the impact might be a +1 or +2 to some Cha-based skills. RP-wise, however, it does make a difference, of course.

 

[RuminDange]

IMC, we added a sub-attribute to charisma, Appearance. Based on Charisma it is +/0/- 1d6 off of charisma open-ended. Roll a 6 on add and you get another, roll a 1 on a minus you subtract another d6. First you roll a d3 to see if you do anything. 1 - Subtract, 2 - nothing, 3 - add.
That simple. Allows the players and me to describe characters in a way without everyone being in the extremes. Also allows the ability to reference one character to another of same race to see which is better looking, not necessary better personality.
So far it has worked fine; I use this to add modifiers to charisma based skill rolls when needed. Dealing with opposite sex, etc.

OH.. And when Charisma is increased, normally Appearance is increased by a like amount, normally. Also since I use a modifier critical hit system, scarring can and does happen. Depending on that, it can affect appearance. Got one character, an Elven Bladesinger (Sorcerer-Fighter) with a nice clawed scar (3 lines) down the face from a Half-Green Dragon-Orge claw when he was much lower level. Taught him about looking around corners blind, never has figured out to use mirrors or scrying, instead just rushes on in. hehehe

He has used it to bolster his appearance somewhat, although he has other issues to overcome.

Not useless but not totally useful either.



RD

 

[Thanee]

One note...

While it's a very common approach to split Charisma into Charisma and Comeliness (Appearance), the other ability are rather similar in having multiple attributes in one.

For example, Dexterity includes manual dexterity/hand-eye coordiniation (targeting, lock picking, fine manipulations) and bodily agility (dodging, acrobatics, etc), likewise Constitution includes a healthy shape/condition and body mass.

In both above cases (much like with Charisma) persons surely exist, that are high in one sub-attribute and low in the other (dwarfs would be a good general example for high dexterity - low agility; long-distance runners for high condition - low body mass).

Just a thought.

If you want to create a character with a high personal magnetism, but low appearance, just apply a moderate value to Charisma and give him some appropriate skills. The rest is done via description/role-playing. The system is quite abstract and often multiple attributes are contained within one ability.

So, I don't see the mechanical need for an additional Appearance ability.

Bye
Thanee