D&D 5E Applying Poison?

[abirdcall]

There is no reason whatsoever to suspect that it would stop working after the first hit.

That's like saying there is no reason to suspect that drinking a potion of healing removes the contents of the potion after drinking it. A potion of healing doesn't say that it is one use only. It only says that using it requires an action.

It is a limitation on the duration that the poison will stay active on the weapon. It is not a magical reappearing poison which gushes forth as quickly as you can wipe it off. That is absurd.

 

[Yardiff]

Its also absurd to think that one hit with a great sword remove the poison that is supposedly coat the 5' blade. Poison was very poor handled/worded in 5e, at least that my opinion.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

It is a limitation on the duration that the poison will stay active on the weapon. It is not a magical reappearing poison which gushes forth as quickly as you can wipe it off. That is absurd.

It's not a limit on the duration. It is the limit on the duration. The only limit, since nothing else is listed. And since this is more consistent with how NPCs work. And since this is more consistent with the price, given the nearly-insignificant benefit.

If that doesn't make sense to you, then you need to re-evaluation what you think is going on in the narrative. You're certainly not wiping your blade clean of all poison with every strike. That would be absurd.

 

[n0nym]

Monsters (like assassins and spiders) are irrelevant I think. They've been designed with infinite poison for simplicity's sake and because they're not supposed to last more than 3 rounds.

In my not so humble opinion, the Basic poison from the Player's Handbook should also be ignored. It was clearly not designed at the same time as the Dungeon Master's Guide's poisons (just compare it to Serpent Venom and it will be obvious). Now the question is one of game balance : do you think that a level 11 fighter should be able to kill an Adult Red Dragon in 2 rounds simply because he's coated his blade with some potent toxin ? I don't.

Poisons are expensive because they're assassination tools, not "always on" magic items. PC are not meant to coat their weapons in poison before every single fight. They should only do so when someone *has* to die, in order to gain a decisive advantage during the surprise round.

Also, I'm surprised that nobody mentions previous editions of the game in this matter. In 3rd edition and its variants (upon which 5th edition is based), poison was wiped after one hit.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Monsters (like assassins and spiders) are irrelevant I think. They've been designed with infinite poison for simplicity's sake and because they're not supposed to last more than 3 rounds.

Saying that an assassin has unlimited poison, given that fights never last more than three rounds, is a reasonable simplification of poison that lasts one minute and isn't expended on use. It is not a reasonable simplification of a poison that is expended upon the first hit.

NPCs use a simpler model, for our convenience, but they are still modeling the same in-game reality.

Poisons are expensive because they're assassination tools, not "always on" magic items. PC are not meant to coat their weapons in poison before every single fight. They should only do so when someone *has* to die, in order to gain a decisive advantage during the surprise round.

Regardless of the rule, they aren't meant to do that because poison is ludicrously expensive and/or evil. Even an evil character can't afford good poison for every fight.

Also, I'm surprised that nobody mentions previous editions of the game in this matter. In 3rd edition and its variants (upon which 5th edition is based), poison was wiped after one hit.

Looking to previous editions can be misleading, because often things are intentionally changed. For 5E, most of the changes were for the sake of simplicity, and simplifying out poison into lasting an entire encounter is exactly the sort of change that they would have intentionally made.

 

[Yardiff]

So how does poison work in 5e? Do those of you who think poison lasting 10 rounds is OP, know how poison works? Because its very different from 3e.

 

[MechaPilot]

So how does poison work in 5e? Do those of you who think poison lasting 10 rounds is OP, know how poison works? Because its very different from 3e.

Even lasting 10 rounds, the basic poison in the PHB is a joke. It does 1d4 damage, for an average of 2.5, rounded up to three. But, the save DC is just a 10, so creatures with no modifier to their Con save will succeed on the save and take no damage 50% of the time. That 50% reduction brings the average basic poison damage down to 1.5 per hit, rounded up to 2.

Now let's throw a couple more assumptions in the mix. Let's assume that combat lasts about five rounds, and that you hit your enemies 50% of the time. That brings the average poison damage down to 1 extra point per attack. Over five rounds, that's an extra five damage.

Unless you are moving very quickly between encounters, you will also be likely to get to use it for only one fight. That means you spend 100 gp and one action (either before or at the beginning of combat) to do an extra five points of damage. The poisons in the DMG are certainly better, but the basic PHB poison is such a joke that I've reduced the price to just 10 gp and even then almost no one at my table uses it.

 

[S'mon]

I had to deal with this issue since my party started fighting Neo-Nerathi Assassins
(the MM Assassin stats) with the potential to take multiple hits off them for
godawful amounts of damage.
And most recently a PC (Rogue, Assassin archetype) just recovered a
poisoned +1 rapier off one of them. Research indicates they are using Wyvern poison
from the DMG, the MM Wyvern poison sting has the same effect too.
One-use seems underpowered, infinite use definitely overpowered. I ruled it had initially
three uses on the rapier blade tip, and that the assassin's special scabbard kept the poison fresh
until use. Given that the PC is also an Assassin I reckon he can use it safely & maintain it
until use.

Hopefully Jeremy Crawford will follow my sensible compromise.

 

[S'mon]

Also, I'm surprised that nobody mentions previous editions of the game in this matter. In 3rd edition and its variants (upon which 5th edition is based), poison was wiped after one hit.

In 1e it was 2 hits, with a save bonus on the second hit (1e poison was save-or-die).

 

[Yardiff]

Even lasting 10 rounds, the basic poison in the PHB is a joke. It does 1d4 damage, for an average of 2.5, rounded up to three. But, the save DC is just a 10, so creatures with no modifier to their Con save will succeed on the save and take no damage 50% of the time. That 50% reduction brings the average basic poison damage down to 1.5 per hit, rounded up to 2.

Now let's throw a couple more assumptions in the mix. Let's assume that combat lasts about five rounds, and that you hit your enemies 50% of the time. That brings the average poison damage down to 1 extra point per attack. Over five rounds, that's an extra five damage.

Unless you are moving very quickly between encounters, you will also be likely to get to use it for only one fight. That means you spend 100 gp and one action (either before or at the beginning of combat) to do an extra five points of damage. The poisons in the DMG are certainly better, but the basic PHB poison is such a joke that I've reduced the price to just 10 gp and even then almost no one at my table uses it.

Basic poison is even worse then that, you only take the 1d4 poison damage on a failed save.