Arani Korden
First Post
The Shadow template in Manual of the Planes changes type to magical beast; the example creature given is a wight, which has changed type and still has no Constitution score.
Applying the Half-Fiend Template to Undead Creatures
Devon
First Post
That is a wonderful idea. I think you make a very good point. I think I'll use it.
I suppose that's one way to explain it. I like the demonic possession better, but if there is a dedicated group of evil magic-users and a Death Knight willing to let them poke and prod it, then I think giving it a half-fiend template isn't too far out of the realm of belief.
- Devon
well according to the rules, you can apply the half-fiend template to undead(i.e. goul, zombie, skelatin(sp)) but an undead's abilities are figured by it's size, I do believe that there are rules out there on if a PC becomes undead. They loose all class, racial, and su/ex/sp abilities. The template would be negated by the fact that it's undead. A half-fiendish med. goul would fbe just as powerful (or weak) as any other med. goul.
sorry to rain on your paraid
sorry to rain on your paraid
That's a dilly of a pickle.
Hello all,
After thinking about this issue, it has raised several more questions. In the example of the shadow wight, it notes in the Special Qualities and Combat sections that it is Undead. However, it is now considered a Magical Beast.
This puts the critter in an unusual position. Can it be turned by a cleric? Of perhaps more interesting note, what happens when you cast a Cure Light Wounds spell upon it?
As noted in the SRD:
Cure Light Wounds
When laying the character's hand upon a living creature, the character channels positive energy that cures 1d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level (up to +5).
Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds. An undead creature can attempt a Will save to take half damage.
Which type takes precedent? Or does the shadow wight simply have “Undead Qualities” (exactly as listed in the combat section) but is otherwise treated as a Magical Beast.
Thanks all,
Ghostmoon
Hello all,
After thinking about this issue, it has raised several more questions. In the example of the shadow wight, it notes in the Special Qualities and Combat sections that it is Undead. However, it is now considered a Magical Beast.
This puts the critter in an unusual position. Can it be turned by a cleric? Of perhaps more interesting note, what happens when you cast a Cure Light Wounds spell upon it?
As noted in the SRD:
Cure Light Wounds
When laying the character's hand upon a living creature, the character channels positive energy that cures 1d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level (up to +5).
Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds. An undead creature can attempt a Will save to take half damage.
Which type takes precedent? Or does the shadow wight simply have “Undead Qualities” (exactly as listed in the combat section) but is otherwise treated as a Magical Beast.
Thanks all,
Ghostmoon
SpikeyFreak
First Post
Its your campaign, do it the way you want to.
If I really wanted a half-fiend vampire or whatever, I would make a falf-fiend something that got turned into a vampire, thus it would be undead.
If you just have to have it be the other way around, its your choice. Make it whichever way you want to.
Undead that become half-fiend just doens't make any sense though, and sometimes you have to make rulings contrary to the letter of the law when the rules don't make sense.
--De-lurking Spikey
If I really wanted a half-fiend vampire or whatever, I would make a falf-fiend something that got turned into a vampire, thus it would be undead.
If you just have to have it be the other way around, its your choice. Make it whichever way you want to.
Undead that become half-fiend just doens't make any sense though, and sometimes you have to make rulings contrary to the letter of the law when the rules don't make sense.
--De-lurking Spikey
Nellisir
Hero
Short answer to the original question: Yes.
<<sometimes you have to make rulings contrary to the letter of the law when the rules don't make sense. >>
Though this situation isn't explicitly spelled out, it seems fairly basic. Undead don't have constitution scores. Assuming outsiders can become undead (and it makes the game much more interesting that way), undead outsiders have no constitution scores. On the hierarchy of creature types, IMO, Undead trumps all but Constructs (which don't have Con scores either, actually).
The only way it could have a Con score is if it was currently alive.
Cheers
Nell.
<<sometimes you have to make rulings contrary to the letter of the law when the rules don't make sense. >>
Though this situation isn't explicitly spelled out, it seems fairly basic. Undead don't have constitution scores. Assuming outsiders can become undead (and it makes the game much more interesting that way), undead outsiders have no constitution scores. On the hierarchy of creature types, IMO, Undead trumps all but Constructs (which don't have Con scores either, actually).
The only way it could have a Con score is if it was currently alive.
Cheers
Nell.
Wippit Guud
First Post
I would be tempted to add any CON bonus due to template to CHA instead in the case of undead.
But just think of the havok you can wreak on a party... something as simple as a half-fiend skeleton of a dragon... how many wouldn't instantly think dracolich?
Hmm... I'm gonna use that, I think...
But just think of the havok you can wreak on a party... something as simple as a half-fiend skeleton of a dragon... how many wouldn't instantly think dracolich?
Hmm... I'm gonna use that, I think...
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