Arcana Unearthed: Pro's and Con's

[EarthsShadow]

spoiled spoiled spoiled

All I have read here are people who expected AU to be almost like standard D&D, and then they looked at a book that wasn't full color (like WotC) and didn't have typical races (akin to D&D) and it did have somewhat subpar artwork (WotC does have the $$$ to pay for better talent), and it sure seems like a bunch of spoiled people looking for things to complain about without really understanding why or what Monte really created.

IMO, I think Monte created the best non-WotC fantasy campaign book yet, but that's me. I like the new races because they are NEW. I like the new classes because they are NEW. I like the magic system because its versatile. I like the no alignment argument. I like the cover, it doesn't look like a normal-oh so-typical d20/D&D cover that most books try to emulate. I like the world he has created, its different and unique, and of course the main world isn't going to be in this book...is the D&D main world described in full in the PHB?? NO, so why do you expect this to be any different.

Sure it says Variant Players Handbook, full of variant races, classes, skills, feats, magic system and spells, and it is compatible to other d20, but to me its just as compatible to other d20 stuff just as much as D&D 3.5 is to D&D 3.0 stuff... so what's the real reason to hate/dislike this... simple... Monte went out and produced a variant book that is NOT D&D, does NOT have D&D races, classes, and spells... and most of you are complaining because its NOT a WotC PHB.

I do agree with the art complaint...most of it is very bad... but as art is not the reason why I buy a game, I could care less about it (but I do agree that good art does help present the game book better).

Also understand that this book is printed under the OGL, not the d20 license, hence no d20 logo on the book. All other books in the line will have the d20 license on it. And he reprinted some rules because it is a PHB, intended for Arcana Unearthed, not Dungeons & Dragons, and it is intended to be worked with The Diamond Thrown, if you so choose to use it.

Arcana Unearhed is NOT Dungeons and Dragons...and it should be treated as its own game book, and not a D&D game book.

This is, of course, how I see it, and even if you disagree and think AU is just D&D in disguise, that's okay.

Monte, if you read this, I think your book is awesome, and I am telling all I know to purchase it and play it because I just think its superior to the typical-D&D books that I have been playing for almost ten years now. Thank YOU for releasing this book, and taking a chance.

 

[EarthsShadow]

From his wife...

This is ES's wife.

I am not as much of a gamer as most of you. Your reasons for not liking Arcana Unearthed are stupid just because the artwork is not in color or the layout is a little off shouldnt matter to a true gamer and it should not be the only reason to not buy the book.

 

[Darrin Drader]

My biggest gripe? $30 for a hardcover book....with a bland, ugly black-and-white interior. Maybe I'm spoiled, but give me that full-color art and a decent graphic design anyways. After the stellar cover (which I *love*) the inside just was sort of a very dull slap in the face.

I have a few criticisms of the book, which I will keep to myself, but having a nice clean layout in black and white is not one of them. I kind of like the look of the book actually.

I don't think that asking for color is a reasonable request, given the costs associated with doing so. Even Bastion Press' books have gone black and white because of the costs associated with printing in color. The only companies that are still financially able to keep producing core RPG books in color on non-licensed material are WotC and Green Ronin for their immensely popular Mutants and Masterminds line.

To call it a slap in the face is really just a denial of the realities of publishing in this industry.

 

[Mallus]

Re: Re: Re: Arcana Unearthed: Pro's and Con's

Art makes a huge impact on how I react to a book. Bad art makes me throw it away on gut instinct--if the art's bad, mustn't the rest of the content be similarly poor?

That just doesn't follow logically. It's the same as saying a resturant must have awful food because the decor is bad, Iron_Chef... . Bad decor, like bad artwork/presentation, won't pull uninformed diners in off the street, but it really has no bearing on the quality of the meal. Using another analogy, a film with horrid acting can have great editing and slam-bang special effects.

Art is there to inspire, to excite the imagination.

I agree. But I don't expect a game's rulebook to include said art, any more than I'd expect a high quality fantasy illustration to inlcude the stat blocks of the figures depicted. It would be nice if either did, its just not essential.

The cover art, the most important factor in getting someone to actually pick up and read your book.

I agree. But now you're talking marketing, not content. A poorly marketed product can still be worthwhile, or are you really suggesting that people simply judge books --or whatever-- by their respective cover?

I disagree that artwork is not helpful to running an interesting game; great art can inspire all kinds of ideas in players and DMs alike

Again, I agree, and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise. But I don't look to rule books for imagery that's going to fire my imagination. I look to rule books for rules. I have films/photos/artbooks/the outside world/etc. for visual inspiration.

AU is both "too different" and "not different enough." It doesn't feel like D&D and that's a very bad thing for a game that is being marketed as a variant "plug-n-play" D&D to D&D gamers.

So its not your cup of tea, can't argue with that. Personally, I'm applying AU to mine own homebrew. Its going to take some work. I don't see AU as "plug and play" either.

 

[Fiery James]

The Solution

Of course, I should point out that the solution to all of your issues are addressed in PLAGUE OF DREAMS, an introductory adventure for Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed.

And, look at that, it's now available through ENWorld's very own online store.

PLAGUE OF DREAMS features some nice layout work by Phil Reed, some interesting and intricate use of the races in the 22-pages of setting material, a keen cover (IMHO) by Kieran Yanner, and a ton of amazing ideas from the three authors.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled online posts.

- James

 

[Negative Zero]

a lot of this seems very strange to me. most of what is being touted as "wrong" with the book seems merely an issue of taste. you don't like the lack of colour, you don't like the art, you don't like the layout. all of these are simply matters of preference. they are not something "wrong."

art, layout and the like is subjective, and as such cannot be counted as a flaw. state that you don't like it, but you can't call an artistic style "wrong." well you can, but it just makes you sound petty, which i'm assuming is not what you're going for.

while i'm on the subect, saying that you think an RPG book is worthless because of astetics, is kind of silly, IMO. does the art (or lack thereof) somehow impact the use relevance of the writing and the game mechanics introduced? no it most certainly does not.

and yes i can appreciate the point about inspiration, however there are no shortages of inspiration in the world, if you open your eyes. griping that they're not in this ONE book, seems childish.

i too initially balked at the inclusion of all the reprinted PHB material, until i stood back and tried to apply merit to the book as a stand alone product. in that capacity, the inclusions are great. i think that's what trips a lot of people up about this product; they keep trying to assume that it's something that it's not.

as for the races issue, i don't get what all the uproar is about on this. (and no i wasn't grabbed by them either.) they're just different to what's established, and different usually takes a while to get used to.

to close, i'm not a fanboy. the book does have its flaws. they jsut aren't as garrish as some people seem hellbent on trying to insist.

~NegZ

 

[Desdichado]

Re: From his wife...

I am not as much of a gamer as most of you. Your reasons for not liking Arcana Unearthed are stupid just because the artwork is not in color or the layout is a little off shouldnt matter to a true gamer and it should not be the only reason to not buy the book.

What matters to a "true gamer" should be up to said "true gamer." Artwork is very important to me, at least. There are so many good books in print that I can expect to only pick up the absolutely superior books and still have enough material to game with for years. I hardly think the reasons are stupid; I'd give second thoughts to a book that had no good artwork myself, unless the rules were incredibly good. And most of the people who've complained about the art have also complained about the rules not being to their taste.

That said, I completely disagree that the layout or the art is bad. I simply can't understand those comments at all (except for Squiggle -- the artist who paints by spilling ink on paper.) Sam Wood is my favorite artist in the RPG industry, and his work is showcased throughout the book much more than any other artist. I actually really like the layout; I can't for the life of me understand what the complaints about it are (do any of you read books outside of the RPG industry, I wonder? Otherwise, I can't understand the complaint of the layout as "boring"). Lacking color is, in my opinion, a silly complaint, since only WotC itself and occasionally SSS have color books in the d20 market. That shows a clear lack of understanding of the industry. Other valid complaints (which I'd still disagree with) about the ideas not being very innovative (weren't necessarily supposed to be, except relative to D&D. Besides, it's not like we didn't know what races and classes it was going to contain for months ahead of time) or compatible with D&D (not an issue to me, since I'm looking at probably having AU run as a discreet unit, completely seperate from D&D) are all ones I've heard as well.

I guess at the end of the day, anyone can like or not like the book for whatever damn reason they want. Even though I disagree strongly with the complaints presented on this thread, I also feel that's hardly a reason to insult them or call them stupid. And making some nebulous claim that "true gamers" wouldn't care about things like that is presumptive and rude as well.

 

[Iron_Chef]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Arcana Unearthed: Pro's and Con's

That just doesn't follow logically. It's the same as saying a resturant must have awful food because the decor is bad, Iron_Chef... . Bad decor, like bad artwork/presentation, won't pull uninformed diners in off the street, but it really has no bearing on the quality of the meal. Using another analogy, a film with horrid acting can have great editing and slam-bang special effects.

Actually, it makes perfect sense. Bad decor infringes on the quality of the meal by reducing the overall quality of the dining experience.

Would you be more likely to eat at a run-down greasy spoon in the bad part of town with bums and gangbangers out front or an upscale restaurant with pleasant atmosphere in a safe location? Unless you are either starving or destitute, chances are you'd go for a better looking place to eat, because there is the expectation that better atmosphere equals better food, even if it turns out not to be true. The same applies to films with great packaging but poor content. Are you going to buy/rent something unfamiliar that looks awful or something that looks all slick and pretty? Again, the expectation of quality is what drives sales/rentals/interest. If something looks like crap, but is actually good, it will probably still fail, because impulse buys/interest are negated. You can't pick it up and say to yourself, "Oh! this must be awesome!" Instead, it must succeed on word of mouth/reviews, which is possible, but improbable. In any event, chances are good it will not perform as well it could have if it had been packaged and promoted properly from the start.

If a product looks bad, it must be bad (regardless of its actual quality) in the eyes of the average consumer. That's how most consumers make buying decisions.

Q: Does item look cool?

If yes, obtain item. If cannot afford item, file under "buy later."

If no, move on to next item for "instant" evaluation.

Very few consumers have the luxury to sit down and carefully evaluate item after item based on actual content. If something doesn't grab them right from the start, they will generally move on until they A) find an item that grabs their attention (cover first, flip-through second, actual analysis of content third if at all), or B) find no items that meet their (possibly preconceived) expectations and leave the store empty-handed.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Re: Re: From his wife...

I guess at the end of the day, anyone can like or not like the book for whatever damn reason they want.

That is one of the most intelligent things I've read in a very long time.

 

[Negative Zero]

Re: Re: Re: From his wife...

That is one of the most intelligent things I've read in a very long time.

you really ought to read more (j/k)

Iron_Chef:
the more you write, the more it looks like you're opposed to the marketing of the product rather than the actual product itself. most of what you complain about has to do with personal taste, and speak nothing of the actual quality of the content. now if this is not the case, feel free to point out where i'm wrong, but based on what you've written, this is what it really seems like.

~NegZ