D&D 5E Arcane Archer is underated due to grasping arrow

[ECMO3]

Most of the consensus seems to indicate that Arcane Archer is weak and a Ranger or Battlemaster would make a better Archer.

After playing with grasping arrow I would have to disagree. This ability is far, far better than any of the battlemaster maneuvers. The big negative is it is usable twice per short rest, but it is more than 3x better than the maneuvers. It is better than HM or the spells a Ranger is going to use to boost damage too. Here is why:

No saving throw. Hit an enemy with legendary actions and he is automatically effected.

The 2d6 poision damage is automatic, no save. That is ok, not great because poison is not the best damage.

-10 movement, again ok not great.

The 2d6 Magic slashing damage can affect it every single turn if it moves, not just on its turns. If your allies hit it with thorn whip or lightning lure or crusher or swarmkeeper, it takes the 2d6 damage every single time! If your party all have force movement options this could be an extra 8d6 or so per round, with no save. - Now we are talking, this is really good

It takes an action and a contested strength check to remove it and it is an action the enemy can easily fail. So it is a minimum of one lost action and potentially 2, 3 or 4. While it is being damaged every turn. Even if you dump intelligence it is still at least 1 lost action to remove it. This scales really well because when you get incredible enemies with multiattack they still use their whole action. Also since it it an ability check and not a save, throwing something like Hex will give him disadvantage on getting out of it - Awesome

So with 1 arcane shot you get good to awesome damage with no save and at least 1 entire action lost, more if he can't easily beat your DC with a strength check.

 

[Stoutstien]

By and large AA is fine mechanically it just fails to fulfill it's thematic niche and is uneventful in play. Coupled with race limit, slight MaDness, weapon choice limits, and slow progression it just comes across and miss aligned with the rest of the archer fighter options. Grasping is a neat trick and curving shot both keep it relevant but ready shot comes online so late as does the small damage boost at 18.

Compare it to the RK who has similar types of effects and uses per SR/LR and you can see the issues. The AA has one effect that is better but the RKs controlling options are taking up about 1/5 of it's feature budget. About the time AA starts falling off the RK gets 2 amazing options with storm and hill that pushes them further along. When they finally get ready shot the RK doubles all of their rune charges per SR.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Deleted.

 

[Stoutstien]

I don't think this works the way you think it works.

Grasping arrow does the 2d6 slashing damage when IT (the creature) moves 1 foot or more, not when it is forced to move. So, other PCs moving it around as you suggest won't deal the damage to it. It is the same as if a creature is force to move, it doesn't provoke opportunity attacks.

Now, if a PC knocks it prone, and the DM decides the creature stands up (spending half its speed), then it would certainly take the 2d6 slashing damage.

Otherwise, I have found AA to be meh, but certainly not weak IME.

Forced movement should work based on the wording. Compare it to to BB that uses the language to differentiate willing/unwilling movement. Same with all the other blender effects like spike growth, cloud of daggers, wall of fire, and so on.

It's noticable worse than a lot of those even with the better action economy thanks to the damage limit per turn and the fact the slashing damage might not even be magical and the other damage is poison. If the subclass has one good trick it should at least be as impactful as a first lv spell.

 

[DND_Reborn]

EDIT: I just found JC's ruling, so I stand corrected.

Does the Arcane Archer's Grasping Arrow deal slashing damage if an affected creature is forcefully moved?

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FWIW, I am surprised by the ruling. If JC feels it should damage the target, then there is really no reason why moving a creature forcibly wouldn't provoke an opportunity attack.

 

[Stoutstien]

EDIT: I just found JC's ruling, so I stand corrected.

Does the Arcane Archer's Grasping Arrow deal slashing damage if an affected creature is forcefully moved?

D&D Sage Advice ·

www.sageadvice.eu

FWIW, I am surprised by the ruling. If JC feels it should damage the target, then there is really no reason why moving a creature forcibly wouldn't provoke an opportunity attack.

For "Balance" reasons really.

If anything AO shouldn't be triggered when moving away to begin with seeing how that is the hardest time to land a meaningful strike on someone unless they are moving into the arch of threat from a reach weapon but for all weapons but lances it doesn't matter.

 

[DND_Reborn]

If anything AO shouldn't be triggered when moving away to begin with seeing how that is the hardest time to land a meaningful strike on someone unless they are moving into the arch of threat from a reach weapon but for all weapons but lances it doesn't matter.

Agreed. We've made disengage a move action (along with others) so you can break from combat and move up to half your speed without provoking an opportunity attack.

To balance it, if you "charge" (i.e. move more than half your speed) to engage a creature, you provoke an OA when you enter its reach.

But I don't want to get off-topic so I'll leave it at that.

 

[ECMO3]

It's noticable worse than a lot of those even with the better action economy thanks to the damage limit per turn and the fact the slashing damage might not even be magical and the other damage is poison. If the subclass has one good trick it should at least be as impactful as a first lv spell.

The slashing damage is magical because it is a from spell, RAW that is pretty clear.

The damage is per turn, not per round, so every time an ally moves the enemy it takes damage. This makes the damage turn after turn really good.

Lost movement + lost action + automatic damage with no save is a lot better than any 1st level spell. Heck it is better than its most comparable 2nd level spell (tasha's mind whip) which damages once and takes a reaction and one of move/bonus/action, will only work for a single round and TMW gets a save where this does not.

 

[Stoutstien]

The issue is it's limited to once per turn max unlike something like spike growth that has a massive ceiling for damage or ensnaring strike that has the restrainded condition on it which is both a better debuff and buff for damage. It's good but at once per SR it's not enough to move it out of the meh category for me. If you have a ton of players with forced movement then maybe but even then I'd take a BM or RK.

 

[ECMO3]

The issue is it's limited to once per turn max unlike something like spike growth that has a massive ceiling for damage or ensnaring strike that has the restrainded condition on it which is both a better debuff and buff for damage. It's good but at once per SR it's not enough to move it out of the meh category for me. If you have a ton of players with forced movement then maybe but even then I'd take a BM or RK.

Spike Growth is once per turn too unless you can move an enemy more than once on during your turn. Further it is an AOE and the enemy needs to be moved inside the AOE, not just moved anywhere, you take damage if you go inside it to move an enemy. This makes a lot of movement options less viable. If the enemy is standing at the far edge of spike growth, for example you have to circle around behind him to push him into it with repelling blast.

Ensnaring strike requires a bonus action and more importantly gets a save. Further that save is with advantage on a large creature. There no save on grasping arrow, it is automatic. This is a BIG difference.

Both Spike Growth and Ensnaring Strike also require concentration.

Finally Grasping Arrow is not a spell, so aside from the fact you do not need to concentrate, I could hit the same enemy with a second Grasping Arrow on the very same turn and essentially double everything and require 2 saves to break free.