Arcane Disciple and Warmage

[interwyrm]

When a class like the Warmage or Beguiler takes Arcane Disciple, they don't have to do anything else to be able to cast the new spells, right?

 

[rgard]

When a class like the Warmage or Beguiler takes Arcane Disciple, they don't have to do anything else to be able to cast the new spells, right?

That's where you get access to clerical domain spells, right? If yes, you are correct as far as I know.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Darklone]

As a DM, this would shout for rule 0.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

As a DM, this would shout for rule 0.

I agree, and would probably not allow it either. But by RAW, also note the wisdom requirements which does something to balance it.

 

[Kurashu]

Don't forget Dread Necromancer + Arcane Disciple cheese.

He doesn't like to be left out. Makes him feel unwanted and unloved. Last I saw he was in the corner crying.

---

As for the AD & Knowing all Spells on your list, it falls under rule 0 for those that feel it is too powerful. I pretty much trust my players in their lack ignorance of min-maxing to the max. Although, I do encourage it in small ways from time to time; I did help one player roll up a Dread Necromancer with AD.

That said, there's nothing other than DM fiat from stopping a Warmage/Beguiler/Dread Necromancer from researching their own version of the spell.

 

[Votan]

I agree, and would probably not allow it either. But by RAW, also note the wisdom requirements which does something to balance it.

Tons of balance, actually, as wisdom is otherwise a Warmage dump stat (they have good will saves) and all Arcane Disciple spells run off of wisdom. Needing a 19 wisdom is a fairly stiff investment.

The only way that this works is to get a Domain that directly expands the ability of the warmage (Travel is my personal example). But, even so, it's a large cost.

 

[Machiavelli]

Wait... you don't get the domain ability along with the spells, do you!?

I'm under the impression that Arcane Disciple only places the domain spells on your class list, such that a wizard could then scribe them into his spellsbook, a warmage could cast them as any other warmage spell (but the feat needs to be taken at creation, because the warmage's spells are inherent knowledge from brain-washing-esque training at their college), and a sorcerer could take them as spells known, as per his normal rules.

The domain ABILITY, however, is only for clerics. Otherwise, yes, this feat would be quite a bit overpowered.

 

[Votan]

Wait... you don't get the domain ability along with the spells, do you!?

I'm under the impression that Arcane Disciple only places the domain spells on your class list, such that a wizard could then scribe them into his spellsbook, a warmage could cast them as any other warmage spell (but the feat needs to be taken at creation, because the warmage's spells are inherent knowledge from brain-washing-esque training at their college), and a sorcerer could take them as spells known, as per his normal rules.

The domain ABILITY, however, is only for clerics. Otherwise, yes, this feat would be quite a bit overpowered.

It is only the spells -- you do not get the granted power of the domain (which is good as many are feats and some are better than feats). No first level requirement but then you cna take a level of warmage at higher levels and get all of the warmage spells without the college referred to in the flavor text.

My comments on ability were that they add "capability" that the warmage (or other class) lacks.

So, for example, Travel adds Longstrider (mobility), Fly, Dimension Door and Teleport to the Warmage list (you don't need the rest of these spells, pretty much ever, meaning Wis 15 is enough to fully benefit). These improve a specific aspect of the warmage that synegizes nicely with their role as an artillery platform. Or add Healing for a Combat Medic.

A Beguiler, on the other hand, is better off with a school that gives non-mind affecting abilities (such as Slime, Destruction or Fire -- with Slime being almost too good) that handle their main weak point although mobility (via Time or Travel) or Utility (Healing) could be good as well.

Among core dieties, the ability to combine Air and Fire or Water and Fire is a very nice combiantion for the Beguiler (useless for the Warmage, however).

 

[satori01]

Wisdom and Knowledge Religion can play a bit of a hassle.
choosing a Domain heavy on attack spells can be a bit of a liability as the save DC's are going to be low.

The Spell Domain for Anyspell is pretty tempting as well.

 

[VonRichthofen]

Note that while you may actually learn these spells as a warmage or beguiler (or dread necro), you still can only cast them ONCE per day each.
So it is still fairly limited, apart from the Wis requirement.