Arcane Disciple and Warmage

[Legildur]

I dunno -- the sorcerer metamagic thing is pretty nice as well.

Yeah, that's got to be my favourite as well. Mind you, the paladin charge ability (in place of special mount) and that ranger distracting ability are both pretty useful too.

 

[Kurashu]

Iunno. The sorcerer's is pretty good. But there's a feat in CM that allows metamagic on spontaneous spells for free. All you need to do is have 15 ranks in Spellcraft if I remember correctly. Any magic user worth their works is gonna have max ranks in Spellcraft.

So, keep your familiar. Shoot, take the battle sorcerer variant and take the improved familiar feat. Ride a Worg into battle flinging quickened empowered maximized fireballs.

 

[VonRichthofen]

So, keep your familiar. Shoot, take the battle sorcerer variant and take the improved familiar feat. Ride a Worg into battle flinging quickened empowered maximized fireballs.

Where did you get the necessary spell slots of 12th level from?
Even with a lenient ruling on feats such as Elven Spell Lore, it's still a 9th level spell - and to further improve this, you surely won't build your whole character around the concept of trowing measy 3rd -level spells with 3rd-level saves to boot?

 

[bestone]

Where did you get the necessary spell slots of 12th level from?
Even with a lenient ruling on feats such as Elven Spell Lore, it's still a 9th level spell - and to further improve this, you surely won't build your whole character around the concept of trowing measy 3rd -level spells with 3rd-level saves to boot?

arcane thesis and metamagic school specialization would help, reducing each metamagic feat applied to a spell by 2

and i'll agree with you, that wouldnt be a good build, and imho fireball sucks (comparatively to what else you can get of course)

 

[Darklone]

And I wouldn't build a sorcerer who can do this with the Sudden feats only once per day

 

[EyeontheMountain]

Iunno. The sorcerer's is pretty good. But there's a feat in CM that allows metamagic on spontaneous spells for free. All you need to do is have 15 ranks in Spellcraft if I remember correctly. Any magic user worth their works is gonna have max ranks in Spellcraft.

12 ranks so from level 9, you can quicken, empower and extend all day. That is my main reason for saying the warmage's ability is best, for it really really expands their options. Makes them far more attractive for more than 5 levels.

 

[Kurashu]

Where did you get the necessary spell slots of 12th level from?
Even with a lenient ruling on feats such as Elven Spell Lore, it's still a 9th level spell - and to further improve this, you surely won't build your whole character around the concept of trowing measy 3rd -level spells with 3rd-level saves to boot?

It was an exaggeration. A "I'm the almighty sorcerer so poop on you mr. preppy spells" sorta thing. And no, why would anybody build a character around tossing about QEM Fireballs with 3rd level saves? They'd have to find a way to get at least 4th level saves.

 

[Felon]

What is the sourcebook for Arcane Disciple?

 

[EyeontheMountain]

What is the sourcebook for Arcane Disciple?

Complete Arcane or divine, I forget

 

[Felon]

OK, just looked Arcane Disciple up in the Complete Divine, and sure enough the whole "shouts for rule 0" business is a massive overreaction. Once a day a warmage/beguiler/dreadneck can cast some spell he couldn't have before, including those that are outside of his standard repetoire. So, the feat provides the benefit of a modest boost in flexibility.

And guess what? That's the exact same benefit that clerics have been reaping from domain spell lists since day one of 3e, dipping into arcane-exclusive spells. And it didn't even cost a feat. Non biggus dealus.