Arcane Disciple - this can't be right!

[Corsair]

so, if bob the sorcerer has a 16 wisdom and takes arcane disciple (healing), when he reaches level 12, he could cast CLW, CMW, CSW, CCW, Mass CLW, and Heal once each per day? this seems pretty powerful for a class that is not supposed to be able to heal.

messy

But how many sorcerers are willing to spend a known spell on a spell they can only cast once a day?

 

[Seeten]

Its a great deal for Dread Necromancers too...but not for the healing domain. There might be a different domain thats great for them

 

[ThirdWizard]

But how many sorcerers are willing to spend a known spell on a spell they can only cast once a day?

I don't have the book, but based on this thread...

If the function of the feat is to put them on your class list don't spend the Known slot on them! Take the feat, then just use spell completion items that have these spells in them. The sorcerer can take the feat, grab some wands, maybe a staff of healing, and a bunch of scrolls, and he's good to go. Adding to spells known is unnecessary.

 

[vulcan_idic]

This strikes me as the sort of rule constructed with "non-standard" parties in mind - i.e. one with no divine caster. Gives them access to some restorative magic resources, thus making up slightly for a lack of a cleric, while not detracting too much, or on the contrary even adding to, from a particular character's concept.

 

[Drowbane]

"Borken!!"

I'd like to address the notion that Arcanists (Wiz, Sorc, Wu Jen, War Mage, etc, etc) being able to cast limited healing is broken.

Not only is it not broken for a "High Wis" Wizard to cast a few healing spells... It doesn't even step on anybodies toes! Ask your typical Cleric how he feels about (typically) being the only one in the party who can (or will) heal.

Now, I wouldn't go so far as to open up healing to the Arcanists for nothing... the Arcane Disciple (Healing Domain) does it nicely as is... but Joe-bob the Wonder-nuker being able to occassionally heal some daily in addition to the normal D&D* spells that he gets...

It is my opinion that "BROKEN!!" gets thrown around far too much on these boards.

*Death and Destruction(tm)

 

[Bront]

ahhh... now i see. thank you, caliban

still, it doesn't seem right to give sorcerers and wizards access to healing... i thought this was a big no-no in terms of class balance

messy

How is that Unbalancing? It's more been a distinction between the two casters than a required distinction. Look at the wizard and repair damage, where they can heal warforged.

 

[JonnyFive]

I'd like to address the notion that Arcanists (Wiz, Sorc, Wu Jen, War Mage, etc, etc) being able to cast limited healing is broken.

Not only is it not broken for a "High Wis" Wizard to cast a few healing spells... It doesn't even step on anybodies toes! Ask your typical Cleric how he feels about (typically) being the only one in the party who can (or will) heal.

Now, I wouldn't go so far as to open up healing to the Arcanists for nothing... the Arcane Disciple (Healing Domain) does it nicely as is... but Joe-bob the Wonder-nuker being able to occassionally heal some daily in addition to the normal D&D* spells that he gets...

It is my opinion that "BROKEN!!" gets thrown around far too much on these boards.

*Death and Destruction(tm)

in this spirit i must say Use Magic Device! a high enough rogue can "cast" any spell they want with the proper tools. allowing the acrane side the ability to gain restoritive spells at a limited rate isn't that overpowering.

 

[Jedi_Solo]

Not to mention that Bards can also cast healing spells. I know some people are against the "Arcane Healing" and have been since Bards got the ability I don't think it's such a bad idea.

It will never be a major part of the Wizard/Sorceror aspect (at least in 3.X) but it always helps to have a backup healer in case the Cleric can't make it to the session or the Cleric goes down in battle themselves.

There is a high cost (skill points, feat) to the ability for limited use (1/day per spell). I don't expect to see get used that much and even then it will likely be for the ability to use wands and similar items.

 

[ARandomGod]

ahhh... now i see. thank you, caliban

still, it doesn't seem right to give sorcerers and wizards access to healing... i thought this was a big no-no in terms of class balance

messy

As someone who's given arcane casters the ability to heal in many campaigns, I can attest that it doesn't affect balance all that much really. Indeed if anything it makes the cleric class stronger, as the healing onus is more spread out.
Adittedly I give arcanist 'alternative' healing, meaning either less effective straight healing or healing with some other cost. But noone other than strict traditionalists have every complained at all, and even those who complain out of the knee-jerk "It's Never Been That Way" philosophy usually end up likeing the effect.

Not only is it not broken for a "High Wis" Wizard to cast a few healing spells... It doesn't even step on anybodies toes! Ask your typical Cleric how he feels about (typically) being the only one in the party who can (or will) heal.

Yes. As I said, it actually strengthens clerics, and in fact I've had arcane casters complain about their ability to heal, as it's ability and therefore expectation effectively weakens their other ability, that of NON healing casting.

 

[Particle_Man]

so, if bob the sorcerer has a 16 wisdom and takes arcane disciple (healing), when he reaches level 12, he could cast CLW, CMW, CSW, CCW, Mass CLW, and Heal once each per day? this seems pretty powerful for a class that is not supposed to be able to heal.

messy

But if you are a soceror, then Wis is one of your dump stats. You already have a good will save progression, and you need Chr, and Con and Dex should have higher priority than Wis.