Arcane Sight vs. Illusions

[Markn]

Generally, people get a save vs an illusion when they interact with it. Arcane sight lets you detect auras similar to detect magic however you learn everything in 1 round instead of multiple rounds. You still need to make a spellcraft check to recognize the aura that you see. Now my question is, if you recognize it as illusion would this be considered interacting with it to give you a save against it?

In particular how would it work with a character with Arcane Sight against a mislead spell if the arcane sight character spotted the illusion from a distance and made his spellcraft roll.

Help!

 

[Ranes]

Let me see if I can do a better job of answering one of your questions this time.

As I understand it, if you identify the illusion's aura, you have interacted with it sufficiently to make a Will save. My reasoning is the Spellcraft check. That would seem to me to satisfy the 'study it carefully' condition for making a save, as described on PH p173.

Hey, if I'm wrong, at least I understood the question this time, right?

Edit: just didn't answer all of it...

In the case of mislead, the arcane sight caster sees the illusion, detects its aura, makes a Spellcraft check and, if he succeeds, recognises it as an illusion. So, he gets the save (by my reasoning above) and, if he makes it, the illusion becomes a transluscent outline of the character who cast the mislead spell (it's a figment). Of course, if the invisible, mislead caster's aura is detected as well, the arcane sight caster should get another Spellcraft check and possibly, thereafter, another Will save.

 

[Markn]

Let me see if I can do a better job of answering one of your questions this time.

As I understand it, if you identify the illusion's aura, you have interacted with it sufficiently to make a Will save. My reasoning is the Spellcraft check. That would seem to me to satisfy the 'study it carefully' condition for making a save, as described on PH p173.

Hey, if I'm wrong, at least I understood the question this time, right?

Edit: just didn't answer all of it...

In the case of mislead, the arcane sight caster sees the illusion, detects its aura, makes a Spellcraft check and, if he succeeds, recognises it as an illusion. So, he gets the save (by my reasoning above) and, if he makes it, the illusion becomes a transluscent outline of the character who cast the mislead spell (it's a figment). Of course, if the invisible, mislead caster's aura is detected as well, the arcane sight caster should get another Spellcraft check and possibly, thereafter, another Will save.

That was the way I have viewed it as well. I just wanted to make sure that it worked that way.

Thanks.

Edit: Never mind.

 

[jgsugden]

"Creatures encountering an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognize it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion." - SRD

At the bear minimum, identifying the presence of illusionary magic would spark a PC to study the illusion carefully. As such, whether there is an authomatic save because of the spell is pretty much a moot point. If my DM tells me I'm seeing an illusion, I'm going to say I'm studying the illusion to make sure I get a save.

"A character faced with proof that an illusion isn’t real needs no saving throw." - SRD

In some instances, just detecting that an illusion is present will be enough to prove that the illusion is not real. Accordingly, in those situations, no save should be required. I'd be very hesitant to use this rule, as it takes the meat out of an already weak school fo spells, but once a player knows illusionary magic is present, that player may be absolutely be sure that his character should have nothing to fear from the illusion. Forcing the character to believe something that the player knows to be false can be annoying.

 

[Ranes]

The thing is, if the arcane sight caster identifies an illusion aura on the mislead figment, he doesn't yet know he's looking at the result of a mislead spell. He knows there's an illusion associated with the figure he's observing but he doesn't automatically know what exactly that illusionary aspect is, hence the need for a saving throw. I justify his entitlement to a saving throw on the grounds that he's studied the illusion by way of the arcane sight's Spellcraft check identifying it as an illusion. If he fails that check, he doesn't know that the aura is illusion magic and therefore I would rule that he doesn't get a saving throw (until he interacts with it in some other way).

 

[Diirk]

In some instances, just detecting that an illusion is present will be enough to prove that the illusion is not real. Accordingly, in those situations, no save should be required. I'd be very hesitant to use this rule, as it takes the meat out of an already weak school fo spells, but once a player knows illusionary magic is present, that player may be absolutely be sure that his character should have nothing to fear from the illusion. Forcing the character to believe something that the player knows to be false can be annoying.

I disagree, by virtue of the fact that shadow magic exists. Just because something is illusory, doesn't mean it isn't real; and all they know is that its a form of illusion, not what type of illusion it is. Thus they potentially could still be affected by it, thus they don't have proof its not real.

(I hesitate to use a double negative, but 'don't have proof its not real' is very different to 'have proof its real'... english is funny like that !)

 

[Markn]

jgsugden

I agree with Ranes statements. In terms of spells like Illusory Wall, the caster may identify the spell as an illusion but the Will save is definately required to 'see through' the illusion. After all an illusion could be hiding an entrance or it could be hiding a brick wall behind it. Just because you recognize it does not mean you know what the illusion is hiding. In some case this may not be necessary but the will save is certainly required to figure some stuff out.

 

[Thanee]

Arcane Sight makes it very easy to detect illusions. While you might not have a proof, you will definitely know that there is something illusionary and the Spellcraft check is easy enough.

I use a house rule, that when using Detect Magic or Arcane Sight, you count as interacting with the illusion and get an immediate (secret) Will save. If the save fails, the illusion provides you with a false reading. You still detect magic, but another school.

Otherwise a simple 0th level spell trumps many illusions, which really seems a bit off to me.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Markn]

Arcane Sight makes it very easy to detect illusions. While you might not have a proof, you will definitely know that there is something illusionary and the Spellcraft check is easy enough.

I use a house rule, that when using Detect Magic or Arcane Sight, you count as interacting with the illusion and get an immediate (secret) Will save. If the save fails, the illusion provides you with a false reading. You still detect magic, but another school.

Otherwise a simple 0th level spell trumps many illusions, which really seems a bit off to me.

Bye
Thanee

That's an interesting way to do it. I think I would describe an incorrect spell from the same school instead. Sure, its illusion but as one other poster pointed out, shadow spells do pack a punch and can do real damage. Still, with some groups that may be the way to do it. Good insight.

 

[Thanee]

Well, you cannot usually determine the exact spell, just the school, with these spells.

And knowing, that there is an illusion spell in place, regardless of the specifics, is often too much already.

Bye
Thanee