Arcane Spell Failure and Shields

[Dyntheos]

Casting a spell requires you to have at least one hand free to make the somatic gestures. A sheild larger than a light shield requires you to use a hand to hold the shield for use. Light Shields and bucklers are merely strapped to your arm.

If you only need one hand free to make gestures, why does a shield provide a chance of arcane spell failure?

Is it the weight of such an item? If so, then should not strength scores limit the effects of shield arcane spell failure? If it is a wieght issue then why is there not a "holding something in your offhand whilst casting an arcane spell V's arcane spell failure chance" table? Or similarly why don't all one handed weapons have an arcane spell failure chance listed next to thier weight?

If it is because it is unwieldy or even a wieght issue, why is it only limited to shields? There is nothing that stipulates that a mage could not hold a heavy staff in one hand and cast in the other, even though the staff requires a hand to hold it and is heavier than a buckler. A mage could easily according to the rules then use the staff and cast a quickened spell in the same round with no chance of spell failure. To me the staff would be heavier and more awkward to hold than a buckler merely strapped to an arm which is not even used to cast, yet provides a penalty to casting spells.

So is the rule based in anything resembling common sense or just a manifestation of 2nd edition D&D not allowing mages to wear armor and have a decent armor class so lets come up with a rule that really doesn't cover the reasoning behind it.

Basically my question is,

Why do shields provide arcane spell failure at all, when other heavier more unweildy objects held in the off hand do not?

 

[GreyShadow]

Perhaps because it's strapped to your arm, and you make arm movements, you have a chance to bang yourself in the head with it?

 

[Dyntheos]

Why would you bang your head when you don't use the arm holding the shield for the gestures?

 

[Sejs]

Right. What he's saying, basically:

Left Hand: Holding a longsword.
Right Hand: Holding nothing.
No Arcane Spell Failure.

Left Hand: Holding nothing.
Right Hand: Holding a shield.
Suffers shield's ASF.

And that the second scenario doesn't make sense. Personally I agree with him on it, too. Ideally it would go more like so:

Left: Longsword, Right: Nothing - no ASF.
Left: Nothing, Right: Shield - no ASF.
Left: Longsword, Right: Shield - suffers shield's ASF. If the shield is a heavy or tower shield, casting a spell not only incurs the shield's ASF, but also makes the shield unready.

 

[GreyShadow]

Why would you bang your head when you don't use the arm holding the shield for the gestures?

Why wouldn't you use your arm to make gestures? Spells might require you to hold your arm(s) in certain ways, if your worried about getting hit with the shield then your not paying 100% to casting.

 

[Liquidsabre]

Phb p.56: ASF
"Armor of any type interferes with a Wizard's movements, which can cause her spells with somatic components to fail."

No mention of shields, but I wonder with the 3.5 change of Shields from an armor bonus to their own shield bonus that this relic sentence refers to both armor & shields. Interesting...

Phb p.122: ASF
"Shields: If a character is wearing armor and using a shield, add the two numbers together to get a single arcane spell failure chance."

Again, nothing about just a shield. Funny that, there doesn't seem to be anything in the rules stating that an arcane caster is subject to ASF when carrying a shield directly. So by appearances from the written text:

An arcane caster with proficiency with shields apparently may carry a single shield in one hand and leave the other hand free of use, and may cast spells with no ASF.

At least, this is how I'd see it as a DM but how about anyone else? Is there any obscure text that is being missed here? (Somatic Components section only states that a single hand must remain free to cast, so nothing there either).

I'm guessing the p.56 quote is suppose to refer to shields AND armor, and that's why an arcane caster can't just go running around with carrying a shield and casting spells.

 

[Dyntheos]

Grey shadow, the rules are clear that you only need one hand to cast spells, not two.

 

[Li Shenron]

So is the rule based in anything resembling common sense or just a manifestation of 2nd edition D&D not allowing mages to wear armor and have a decent armor class so lets come up with a rule that really doesn't cover the reasoning behind it.

You make very good points, in fact the reason is only that ASF is a sacred cow. The wizard must be weak and unprotected in combat.

I think that if you carry the same shield in the off-hand (but it is not strapped to your arm, therefore it doesn't give you any AC bonus) you don't suffer ASF.

As a house-rule (or as a stretching interpretation of the term "using" a shield) you can rule that - on a round basis - if you are not using the shield to get an AC bonus you can avoid the ASF.

 

[Quasqueton]

I brought up a similar question a while back, and one of the answers that really got to me was:

There is a difference between "holding" something and "using" something.

If you are getting the AC bonus from the shield in your hand (even if the other hand is empty), then you are using it and therefore get the ASF chance.

That's why you can have a greatsword in your off hand but cast without problem (assuming your other hand is free to gesture) -- you are not using it while you cast. You can have a shield strapped to your back and cast without problem -- you are not using it while you cast. But if you are actively *using* the shield, you get the ASF -- you're getting the benefit and the drawback at the same time.

Quasqueton

 

[Dyntheos]

How does that then compare with me using a longsword and casting a quickened spell in the same round? I use the longsword and cast a spell yet the longsword doesn't interfere with spell casting.

Whilst essentially a viable argument it does not hold water. There are no rules that stipulate that if I cast a spell I lose the ability to utilise a weapon I may be holding in my other hand. This is particularly evident for flanking and AoO in combat. In both cases I am actively using my weapon should an AoO come by, or if I am positioned in combat to flank, then I am using my weapon again, not merely holding it. In both cases I am free to cast without being impeded by the fact that I am actively using the sword.

The rule about casting does not state you must be standing still and not performing other actions, having ones other hand strapped to ones side. If the "holding" and "using" case were to hold water, then why differing values of arcane spell failure for the various shields? Why not a flat penalty? I would assume that the blocking motion to halt an overhead swing from a sword would be the same for a light shield as it would be for a heavy shield, the difference in shields being somewhat bigger and therefore able to cover you better should the swing go wide. However the mechanics of the block would be quite similar, so why the difference?

The "Force Shield Ring" (page 232 of the DMG) produces a wall of force that "can be wielded by the wearer as if it were a heavy Shield... (it) has no armor check penalty or arcane spell failure since it is weightless and encumberance free."

According to your statement the wielder of this ring could not "use" it without incurring a spell failure chance, yet clearly it states you can. It also goes on to state that the chance of arcane failure is directly related to weight and encumberance, not whether you are using it or not.

Common sense tells me that the Arcane spell failure for shields is a continuance of the original AD&D where wizards could not wear armor, for whatever esoteric reasons Mr Gygax had at the time. It has since filtered down through the ages to it's current state of the rule being "arcane spell failure", yet the reasons for "why" it's there at all are never clearly stated.

Finally let me ask this. What is the big difference between a Cleric's Somatic gestures and the Somatic gestures of a Wizard? How does a shield provide no obstacle at all to your cleric casting "wind wall" and your mage casting the same spell?

Are the stereotypes of the wizened wizard in his robe (Hi Gandalf) that ingrained into us, that common sense has taken a back seat?

Arcane spell failure is based on weight and encumberance, so where are my weight tables for arcane spell failure?

The sacred cow is starting to smell rotten.