Arcane spell failure outmoded ?

The only reason the ASF still exists is for flaver and compatibility with older editions of the rules. Most people would agree that the cleric is one of the most powerfull classes in the game. In prior editions this was not true, so they got the bonus of wearing armor while casting.

satori01 said:
Hong and I are apparently on the same wave length.
What is the justification for a cleric's bulls strength being able to be cast with no problems in the medievel equivilent of a tank, while an arcanist exact same spell will suffer from impediement.

Do people really think that arcanist spell list are soo much better than the divine spell list, that poor old wizards and sorcerers must be curtailed else they will truly make those poor old weak clerics with their bonus domains and often very nifty domain spells feel weak and inferior?
 

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I think the issue is really just one of flavor. It wouldn't be too unbalanced to let wizards cast spells in armor, any more then it would be unbalanced to make halflings 7 feet tall with green skin. But both things would detract from both classic fantasy and the flavor of the world.

I wouldn't be surprised though if that eldritch knight fighter/wizard prestige class in the new DMG had some ability to ignore arcane spell failure.
 

niteshade6 said:

I wouldn't be surprised though if that eldritch knight fighter/wizard prestige class in the new DMG had some ability to ignore arcane spell failure.

Since it's basically a warmed-over spellsword from T&B, I wouldn't be surprised either. ;)
 

Nail said:
ASF isn't just a sacred cow. It's a balancing factor and a flavor factor. Most fantasy games do not visualize the wizard archetype to be marching around in full plate.


Most fantasy genres don't envision priests in full plate either.
 

Hypersmurf said:


I simply assumed the original post was wry and ironic...

-Hyp.

Indeed =) I know the poster and he is a smart-ass. :D

Arcane spell failure works fine IMO. It's flavor for wizards to not be in armor. If you want to get around it, take still spell and use spells that are verbal & material only.

Or, accept the % chance to fail. I had an elven wiz cohort that used mithril chain (10% ASF). It was an added dimension to the character. The character typically used scrolls and wands, but in a pinch could cast spells with a chance of failure.
 


ASF

Most people agree that a wizard doesn't need armor. You get bracers when you can afford them (and no hurry thanks to Mage Armor). Even players of rogues, bards, and rangers like bracers because of the skill and movement advantages (druids, too, if the bracers are non-metal). In armor, swimming is difficult, it is loud, the max dex bonus limits the effect of cat's grace and the like, etc. Though it only matters in some games, wearing armor is often worse in town encounters and when you are dressed for bed.

Smart high-level characters rarely wear heavy armor (even fighters); full plate is still worn, but it is made of lighter materials (a.k.a. Dwarven Plate). High DEX characters almost always eventually opt for the elven chainmail or an equivalent at higher levels (light armor with only a +4 armor bonus, same as Mage Armor). Super-high DEX characters often have to do away with armor entirely to take advantage of their full DEX bonus. There are spells that improve your mobility in armor (such as fly), but any competent wizard can come up with improved mage armor as well. The difference either way is approximately one spell. The true test of whether armor is worn is in how your ability scores are arranged. Most characters with good DEX will have light or no armor.

As to flavor, I have always found that making the NPCs behave one way (establishing the flavor) works just fine. Let the PC wizards act how they want and the NPC wizards wake up in the morning, put on their robes, and cast mage armor (or an improved version--for those who don't know, the improved version formula is 3+level of spell armor bonus). Apprentices will not be tromping around their masters' houses in armor. Mid-level wizards will likely be found in town trying to make a living most of the time. Any wizard who has to don armor to do battle is low enough level that he/she is not a full-flavor wizard anyway. Throw on top of that the simple fact that STR is not as valuable to a wizard as other classes, and the armor will naturally be lighter (and if the armor is a chain shirt or the like, wearing it under robes will not detract from flavor, anyway).

In case my point is murky, since every other character may opt for light or no armor in order to advantage themselves, a wizard may end up doing the same. In fact it is likely that the highest level wizards (those on the order of Gandalf and Merlin) would not wear armor since they have sufficient armor bonus without it. Weaker or slower wizards, and Battle Mages, probably would. No big unbalancing going on here.

Nevertheless, I would recommend the armored casting feat for those who can't swallow the argument that armor is not unbalancing. Wasting a feat to cast spells while wearing armor should be pretty good incentive to keep wizards out of armor. Without the feat, a Concentration check is in order with the penalty equal to the skill check.

Though it doesn't "prove" anything, the wizard in my campaign chose not to take the armored casting feat. Incidentally, neither the wizard nor the ranger/rogue wear armor.
 

Saeviomagy said:
I'd much rather ADD ASF to divine spells than remove it from arcane ones.

agreed..course they would have to change the name to something else. Cant really have "arcane" spell failure affecting divine spells. :)
 
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darkbard said:
still spell is a way of getting around ASF but it means your spells take a level hit. that's a pretty big penalty.
Yeah. But then again, the cheap 10-point AC bonus you can get out of mundane armor is a pretty big bonus.
 

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