Arcane Thesis Abuse (PHB II)

[Jack Simth]

That would be liable to bite you later in your character's career.

Okay, so you're a Wiz-6 with Arcane Thesis (Fireball) and Energy Substitution (cold) (or whatever). You throw out 8d6 (Cold)Fireballs with 2nd level spell slots.

So you just blast through nearly everything.

So now you're a Wiz-10; Fireball caps at 10d6, so the increased caster level doesn't help. You can Empower them in 4th level slots for 15d6, so you're still getting a benefit, but it is considerably less of an impact than it was at 6th.

So now you're a Wiz-15; Oh, yeah, Fireball - sure, I use it when I know I'm facing mooks. Otherwise? Not so much. Seems just about everything takes half damage from it anymore.....

So now you're a Wiz-20. And that Arcane Thesis (Fireball) you took for your 6th level feat is now rather.... useless. Those 2nd level slots are usually going for See Invisibility, Web, Glitterdust, and the like; the 3rd level slots often hold Flight.

 

[Mistwell]

Given the new tradable feat rules in that same book, claiming it's useless by 20th level doesn't have the same impact it used to have.

 

[Thaniel]

Given the new tradable feat rules in that same book, claiming it's useless by 20th level doesn't have the same impact it used to have.

Assuming your DM allows those rules, which I think is rather iffy based on what DMs I've spoken to.

 

[Particle_Man]

Or the DM could have a moment to think and say "NO way in hell does your character cast a fireball as a 2nd level spell, no matter what feats you have."

 

[KarinsDad]

So now you're a Wiz-10; Fireball caps at 10d6, so the increased caster level doesn't help. You can Empower them in 4th level slots for 15d6, so you're still getting a benefit, but it is considerably less of an impact than it was at 6th.

So now you're a Wiz-15; Oh, yeah, Fireball - sure, I use it when I know I'm facing mooks. Otherwise? Not so much. Seems just about everything takes half damage from it anymore.....

So now you're a Wiz-20. And that Arcane Thesis (Fireball) you took for your 6th level feat is now rather.... useless. Those 2nd level slots are usually going for See Invisibility, Web, Glitterdust, and the like; the 3rd level slots often hold Flight.

You don't need Energy Substitution to make this good, but it helps.

There are a lot of good metamagic feats that can be added to Fireball at high level to make it rock. Course, most of these work better with the on the fly Sorcerer instead of a Wizard, but unless you take Sorcerer/Incantrix, the number of metamagic feats available is less.

Heighten, Widen, Maximize (60) plus Empower (~17), there is a feat that adds 2 points per die to the attack (which becomes 3 for Empower DM dependent), there is a metamagic feat that allows you to cast the spell back to back on two consecutive rounds (i.e. it fires off twice), etc.

Granted, I would wait for Arcane Thesis until Cone of Cold myself.

 

[Someone]

Wow, the possibilities with Acid splash are endless. Since a substituted acid splash with arcane thesis is a -1 level spell, wands and scrolls make you earn money and XP when you make them, and you finish making them before you start!

 

[KarinsDad]

Wow, the possibilities with Acid splash are endless. Since a substituted acid splash with arcane thesis is a -1 level spell, wands and scrolls make you earn money and XP when you make them, and you finish making them before you start!

Cool.

Sign me up!

 

[Infiniti2000]

So now you're a Wiz-15; Oh, yeah, Fireball - sure, I use it when I know I'm facing mooks. Otherwise? Not so much. Seems just about everything takes half damage from it anymore.....

That's why you combine it with that +1 level metamagic feat from Sandstorm, forget the name, similar to Piercing Cold from Frostburn, that reduces your opponents' resistances. The fireball is still 3rd level, but at the cost of two feats (one dedicated) you can still affect opponents with resistance 30.

 

[Nightchilde-2]

I think this would invoke the House Rule of Common Sense, along with the whole "all your gear and equipment meld into your new form" with the new Polymorph subschool.

Sure, if you polymorph to a dragon your equipment should meld, but if you alter self to look like, say, an orc, you shouldn't suddenly become a nekkit orc.

 

[Simplicity]

Yes, but my question is:
What level is a Maximized, Empowered fireball with Arcane Thesis (Fireball)?