Arcane Trickster (3e) any good?

[Fundin Strongarm]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

It looks like the AT is more of a super-Rogue than an arcane caster with some nice support abilities. Right now I'm THE party arcane caster. At lower levels, it was nice to take the Rogue level as it gave me a little combat power and some skills the party didn't have but I still remained the "mage" of the party. At this point I'm rather hesitant to turn my character into more of a Rogue than a caster.

 

[ARandomGod]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

It looks like the AT is more of a super-Rogue than an arcane caster with some nice support abilities. Right now I'm THE party arcane caster. At lower levels, it was nice to take the Rogue level as it gave me a little combat power and some skills the party didn't have but I still remained the "mage" of the party. At this point I'm rather hesitant to turn my character into more of a Rogue than a caster.

Yea, he is really more of a super rogue than an arcane caster with support abilities. This is entirely due to the loss of three levels of caster. Three levels down means you'll always (until level 17) be casting spells one spell level lower than you would normally, and 1/2 the time two spell levels lower.

You can play it as an arcane caster with some nice support abilities, but that gives you a weakened caster, as opposed to looking at it the other way and getting an enhanced thief. ^_^

Depending on the power level of the campaign though, it still might be worth it to take AT> I mean, once you've started down the path... .. .

 

[Felix]

Right now I'm THE party arcane caster. At lower levels, it was nice to take the Rogue level as it gave me a little combat power and some skills the party didn't have but I still remained the "mage" of the party. At this point I'm rather hesitant to turn my character into more of a Rogue than a caster.

If you're THE caster, then your party would probably appreciate that you stay that way. Then again, you shouldn't tailor your PC to suit your other players; it's up to the DM to decide what challenges a party, and without a full-leveled arcanist some things will challenge the party more than would otherwise, others would be less of a challenge. Talk to your DM about how he molds his challenges, and design your PC to suit your own style of play, and not worry about what the party "needs".

But, I did feel it important to disagree with one point above. Two half casters are nowhere NEAR a full caster. A full caster would sneer in scorn at two half casters. ... Well, a wizard would. A Sorc would still feel scorn, but you'd comehow like him better anyhow. His would probably be a warm yet slightly condescending smile.

Two half-casters are near a full caster for three reasons:

1) Two casters can cast two spells for every one from the full caster. Granted they won't be as powerful, but enemies will have to worry about two spell vectors instead of only one.

2) Your HP total is very likely going to be higher with two 1/2 than a full, and so other party members will have to worry less about protecting the feeble wiz. The same applies for the caster's poor Fort and Reflex saves; Will might not be as strong, but who targets a Wiz with a Will save spell anyway?

3) If only half of your skills are dedicated to casting, then presumably you could do something else much better than the full caster. This will not make you a better caster, but it might make you a better adventurer.

In terms of sheer power, yeah, the specialist is going to win out. Full over two-1/2.

Looked at in terms of adaptability, your half-casters will likely be more versatile than the full.

 

[Fundin Strongarm]

I guess I also envisioned this character as being the arcane caster for the party. Needing to be a 5/4 Wiz/Rog will cut into that a bit too much I think. A 5/3/1 Wiz/Rog/Loremaster might be ok but it's too late for me to become a Loremaster.

I guess, if I had drawn out this character from the beginning, I'd have picked 5/1/1/2 Wiz/Rog/Assassin/Loremaster before going into Arcane Trickster, thereby only losing out on 2 levels of spell progression (but picking up an extra 1st level spell from the Assassin).

Anyways, I don't think I'm going to do it since I need to be a 4th level Rogue. Basically, I don't think the Rogue levels will help me that much during the transition and I'll basically be a weak Wizard.

 

[Thanee]

That's only in 3.0 though. There aren't any exclusive skills in 3.5.

I think he was asking about 3.0 (3e), though, that's why I have written it with that in mind.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

With your good Int and the one level of rogue, you would also be able to raise a few important skills to high levels (i.e. Search and Disable Device) as cross-class skills.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Fundin Strongarm]

Thanks, Thanee. It's true that I don't regret the one level of Rogue that I've taken. It has given me some nice skills (move silently, hide, disable device and some search) and the ability to use a short bow. Investing 3 more levels doesn't seem worth it though (although evasion and uncanny dodge are nice). 2 would be bearable.

Anyways, I think I'll stick with being a Wizard who can sneak around a bit.

 

[ARandomGod]

I think he was asking about 3.0 (3e), though, that's why I have written it with that in mind.

Bye
Thanee

Just don't take the last rogue level untill you are high enough to put that skill to the point you need it, and you can still get there with three. You just can't do it if you put in the first three as rogue.

I'm playing starting a 3.5 arcane trickster now, and he's doing rogue first, then 2 wiz, another rogue, three wiz, and a last rogue. Put those rogue levels in later so you can maximize your skills more effectively. In this case, with one level of rogue at level 8, there's no need to take a fourth level of rogue to get your prerequisite skillset up to seven.

 

[BlackSilver]

Talk to your GM

You could speak with your GM, ask him if you can place points into the proper skills without paying double points, role play some research and concentrate your efforts to reach Arcane Trickster, they seem like an interest class.

Perhaps explain to your fellow players what you would like to do, and see if they won't help you out.

Good Luck

 

[Felix]

IDHMBWM, but...

I was under the impression that you only needed 3 levels of rogue to get into AT... because you need +2d6 SA. Or is there something else I'm missing?

Perhaps 7 ranks in Decipher Script? You don't need 4 Rogue levels to get the 7 max ranks, once you have it as a class skill, it is a class skill for all of your character levels... so you could be 5/1 Wiz/Rog and have 9 max ranks in Decipher Script. Yeah, you'd have to pump two skill points from the Wizard levels, but you don't need that 6th Rogue level to get the 7 ranks...