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Archers, Arrows, Improvised Weapons and AoO

Nifelhein

First Post
Okay, consider an archer, now you have an enemy adjacent to him, considering that bows cannot be used for an AoO the enemy casts a spell without the defensive casting choice, thus causing possible AoO.

In theory an arrow is an improvised weapon, thus the wielder would take a -4 penalty to attack rolls, this raises a single question, can the arher mentioned above take an arrow and strike the damn spellcaster enemy?

Why? Why not?

My concerns are whether he can actually get an arrow for this or not, I think he can draw it as a free action for use with the bow but must spend a mvoe action to get it as a weapon itself. This leaves open the possiblity of the quick draw feat be used for taking the arrow and attacking, thus making reference to the other thread I started just before this one...

So guys, what about this, too Legolas to be in the game or not?
 

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frankthedm

First Post
provided the archer has an arrow in hand at the time the AoO occurs.

i believe you could retrieve a peice of ammunition as a free action per shot you fire but i don't know where to cite PHB or SRD at the moment.
 

Thanee

First Post
Don't see a problem with it. It's considered a melee attack, has 5' reach, so threatens the square the caster is in.

Bye
Thanee
 

Li Shenron

Legend
IIRC, drawing ammunition is part of a ranged attack with a projectile weapon or part of the load action (if loading is a separate action from the attack), which is not a free action exactly. Otherwise, if you draw the ammunition but don't load or attack with the projectile weapon, you probably draw it as a weapon (MEA, or free action with Quick Draw).

To make the AoO with it you must have it already in hand.
 

Thanee

First Post
You can still quick draw an arrow after you have fired your last shot. It's surely no problem to use it during the next action instead of drawing yet another one. So with the Quick Draw feat, this should be possible.

Drawing a weapon other than an arrow this way would leave you with the choice to either drop it (free action) or sheathe it (move-equivalent action) at the beginning of your next action, in order to make any attacks with the bow. Therefore an arrow is probably the best "solution".

You can also get a glove of storing and have any one-handed weapon appear at the end and disappear at the beginning of your turn for this purpose. Looks a bit funny, but is probably more effective. ;)

Bye
Thanee
 

Keith

First Post
I don’t think you can draw an arrow when it is not your turn to act. Nor could you take an AOO by doing so, since prior to holding the arrow, you did not threaten, so did not GET an AOO.
An archer who fired on their last turn emptied that hand, and will get a chance to fill it again when it is their turn and IF they make a ranged attack. While you could try and argue that an archer who did not attack has an arrow in their hand anyway, unless this was specifically referred to prior to the encounter, I would assume instead that they did not bother to carry around something they can draw and use so quickly.

Legolas-wise, I recall him drawing an arrow and using it to attack- fair enough. An archer who did that on their turn just used their first attack to do that, and can proceed from there. I would not think it is a good idea to invent, in effect, a whole new type of AOO for archers, who are clearly not intended to get them.
 

Darklone

Registered User
Thanee said:
You can also get a glove of storing and have any one-handed weapon appear at the end and disappear at the beginning of your turn for this purpose. Looks a bit funny, but is probably more effective. ;)

Bye
Thanee
Yeah, they should have changed that IMHO...
 

melkoriii

First Post
I personaly would just make a feat that allows you to make AoO with a arrow within 5' while useing a Bow. Make it so with the feat you remove the -4 to Hit.

BTB if using a ranged weapon, you do not get AoO.
 


Destil

Explorer
I'd have to agree with the can't do it crowd. Drawing an arrow to fire isn't even a free action, it's a non action (remember thoes?) in my book, part of attacking with the bow. If you wanted to draw one as a melee weapon after you had attacked with the bow you'd need to use quick draw or take a move to draw it.

So with quick draw, sure why not. Otherwise not unless you take the move at the end of your turn.
 

Hypersmurf

Moderatarrrrh...
Destil said:
I'd have to agree with the can't do it crowd. Drawing an arrow to fire isn't even a free action, it's a non action (remember thoes?) in my book, part of attacking with the bow.

Which book's that?

Ammunition: Projectile weapons use ammunition: arrows (for bows), bolts (for crossbows), or sling bullets (for slings). When using a bow, a character can draw ammunition as a free action; crossbows and slings require an action for reloading. Generally speaking, ammunition that hits its target is destroyed or rendered useless, while normal ammunition that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost.

-Hyp.
 

Nifelhein

First Post
Thanks for the response guys. I wondered this when i was rereading the PHB and nothing was there to stop the possiblity without the need for a thousand feats. By the rules and what I have read (note I am not referencing them), drawing an arrow is a free action if you do so for firing it, so the archer could not load a free arrow at the end of the round and take AoOs with it.

An archer with quick draw could draw the arrow at the end of his turn,a s there is nothing to stop him from doing so, of course that a DM can rule that drawing yet another arrow would make for too many free actions in a round.

Another possible idea for justificating this to any player showing up with it is that using an arrow with your hands require a very different hold of it than one can get quickly for using with the bow, thus requiring a moe action to draw it without quick draw.

The -4 penalty for improvised weapon is a good one, cpould a player take a feat to offset it? There is no feat dedicated to an improvised weapon category, although i think that exotic weapon should do it. Would it be fair? Possibly so, an arrow is not all that good as a melee weapon.

Thanks for participating guys, I had this thought and had to ask and share you know... my archers from now on are surely going to pick quick draw, thus threatening the area around them! ;)
 

Will

First Post
Actually, with quick draw and exotic weapon proficiency (hand-held arrow)...

'Ha, I'll cast right next to this archAAAAARGH! MY EYE!'
 

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