D&D 5E Archetypes to add to 5e

[Arnwolf666]

I will see your flat denial of the patently obvious and raise you a Wall of the Faithless.

Except in campaign settings that deliberately went out of their way to subvert this-- such as Dark Sun and Eberron-- for the last forty years Dungeons & Dragons has promoted a non-historical and particularly idiosyncratic form of polytheism as the objective moral truth of its multiverse. Because socially necessary magics are gated behind acceptance of this truth, all existing communities and social structures must accept it and pressure their individual members into accepting it.

Only in Planescape is questioning the moral order of a cosmology in which the souls of people who do not worship these deities-- regardless of the deities' own moral alignment-- not explicitly an Evil act.

The theology of the "D&D multiverse" is complete and utter jank, but just like the arbitrary idiocy of its alignment rules, the game's rules demand that we pretend that it makes sense and avoid questioning it.

If you don't see how that's a problem, you're part of the problem.

Well. Some like the cosmology and alignment system. It feels like d&d.

 

[DammitVictor]

Well. Some like the cosmology and alignment system. It feels like d&d.

Yeah. I've experienced that a lot over the past few years. I'm not impressed with that mindset at all, especially when it comes at the expense of being able to roleplay with any kind of nuanced or thoughtful morality unless your DM is willing to jettison the morality mechanics entirely.

Bad rules don't get better with age. They get better when people stop defending them as "tradition" and start fixing them.

Look at all of the mindblowingly stupid arguments there have been about Paladins' Codes of Conduct and falling... the vast majority of which could be simply and productively resolved by using actual, concrete Codes of Conduct instead, like Fifth Edition did. Now suggest to the 3.X and Pathfinder fanbases that this is an obvious solution to the problem, and watch all of the mouthbreathers come out of the woodwork to tell you there is no problem while they are literally surrounded by the overwhelming evidence that the sloppy, thoughtless rules they're defending are actively ruining games.

More often than not, they don't have a problem with the rules they insist are integral to the feel of the game because they're not even using them in their own games.

If I had any sort of respect for that kind of opinion whatsoever, I wouldn't have to be asked to be nicer to people who consider sheer, implacable petulance to be a substitute for having a legitimate point.

Hot take: don't yuck somebody else's yum.

Even hotter take: apply that same moral principle to all the muppets saying that D&D shouldn't support godless priests and CG paladins because they're "contradictions in terms". Or does that only apply to people whose opinions agree with yours?

 

[PsyzhranV2]

Yeah. I've experienced that a lot over the past few years. I'm not impressed with that mindset at all, especially when it comes at the expense of being able to roleplay with any kind of nuanced or thoughtful morality unless your DM is willing to jettison the morality mechanics entirely.

Bad rules don't get better with age. They get better when people stop defending them as "tradition" and start fixing them.

Hot take: don't yuck somebody else's yum.

 

[cbwjm]

A sort of Heretic Hunter or Cultist Seeker?

Yeah, something like the heretic hunter hunting down those who activiely oppose or anger the faith. I've thought of taking the 4e Avenger (minus the heavy weapons) and using them as a basis for the subclass. So far, that's all I have, a note in my DnD ideas document which points towards the avenger and one or two 4e paragon paths for ideas.

Yeah, some water spells, trident proficiency, some power for navigating and not getting lost, some calming of storm, some sort of power to command creatures with a swim speed, adaptation to water... Something a bit more nautical and less 'Smash with a thunder hammer'. Maybe even a slight boost to healing? Maybe they get Druidcraft but can only use the Weather divining part? And Shape Water of course.

Water Walk and Water Breathing are both rituals, so maybe the Sea Domain is a better ritualist than other Clerics? There's some design space to exploit there. Throw Ceremony in their domain list?

Pretty much all that I think would be good although I'm not sure I'd put ceremony on the domain spell list, I think the spells should relate directly to the domain. I did start creating a domain for Sea Gods but I couldn't think of which abilities to put in it except for granting a swim speed and natural water breathing ability. Looking at it, I seem to have given them a melee attack power but gave them the potent cantrips ability so those abilities are a little mismatched. For spells, I had to create a couple of 2nd level spells so there must not have been much choice at the time.

 

[Arnwolf666]

Well. Some like the cosmology and alignment system. It feels like d&d.

Yeah. It may not work for some. But the alignment system can easily be thrown out. I never understood the problem I have never had a problem with it. I See the alignments as big boxes allowing for alot or things. And people may not act the same alignment all the time. But there will be a general tendency.

As for the structure of the planes. That is pretty flexible. Even the planescape setting hinted that their structure may be wrong. They are models that can change as easily as our own did historically. All they really know is a portal takes a person to whatever plane. Or that the plane shift spell takes u to a plane that some item is Attuned too. Different philosophers and cosmologists can view the structure of the planes differently. And there may even be outer planes that aren’t as well known that aren’t even related to the alignment system. Nothing stopping people from creating planes of different concepts.

God knows I don’t let some settings fluff stop me from tweaking what I want to do in my camplaign. And my next might be different or the opposite. But when u DMed hundreds of settings over a few decades at least I don’t really care about canon for more than possible idea mining. I still use a modified 1E cosmology for Pete sake. My games run fine.

 

[Arnwolf666]

i Think the problem is more the need that some people feel that they have to be doing something in a way that WotC/TSR approves of. People seem to want to playing Eberron orthodox or something. Some feel like they are doing it wrong to do it differently.

 

[Undrave]

Pretty much all that I think would be good although I'm not sure I'd put ceremony on the domain spell list, I think the spells should relate directly to the domain. I did start creating a domain for Sea Gods but I couldn't think of which abilities to put in it except for granting a swim speed and natural water breathing ability. Looking at it, I seem to have given them a melee attack power but gave them the potent cantrips ability so those abilities are a little mismatched. For spells, I had to create a couple of 2nd level spells so there must not have been much choice at the time.

You justh ave to imagine the kind of role a Priest of the Sea would hold in an island community, for exemple. The sea is life and death to people who rely on fishing for survival, and sailors are famously superstitious so a Cleric of the Sea would probably be someone SUPER important. They'd be doing a lot of rituals to appease the Sea and Divine its mood... Every morning they would go to the cliff, burn some herbs and do a ritual to ask the sea to not take a fisherman or sailor that day... so I could see someone like that presiding over various important ceremonies. It's also where the idea of thm bing better ritualists than other clerics came up.

It's a bit annoying that Water Walk, Water Breathing AND Tidal Wave are all third level spells though... at least Water Walk is already on the Cleric's list.

 

[Parmandur]

You justh ave to imagine the kind of role a Priest of the Sea would hold in an island community, for exemple. The sea is life and death to people who rely on fishing for survival, and sailors are famously superstitious so a Cleric of the Sea would probably be someone SUPER important. They'd be doing a lot of rituals to appease the Sea and Divine its mood... Every morning they would go to the cliff, burn some herbs and do a ritual to ask the sea to not take a fisherman or sailor that day... so I could see someone like that presiding over various important ceremonies. It's also where the idea of thm bing better ritualists than other clerics came up.

It's a bit annoying that Water Walk, Water Breathing AND Tidal Wave are all third level spells though... at least Water Walk is already on the Cleric's list.

Well, consider that religious ceremonial priesthood and the Cleric Class are somewhat seperate in 5E: a Fighter or Rogue can be an Acolyte with full priestly regalia, while a Cleric might be any Background and lack that, and not every village priest is possessed of divine magic.

As such, a Cleric is less clergy per se, and more in the more of Saint, Prophet or Avatar. And, for a Sea deity, might the Tempest archetype fit for a Prophet or Chosen One...?

 

[Undrave]

Well, consider that religious ceremonial priesthood and the Cleric Class are somewhat seperate in 5E: a Fighter or Rogue can be an Acolyte with full priestly regalia, while a Cleric might be any Background and lack that, and not every village priest is possessed of divine magic.

As such, a Cleric is less clergy per se, and more in the more of Saint, Prophet or Avatar. And, for a Sea deity, might the Tempest archetype fit for a Prophet or Chosen One...?

Oh you're right, but I just mean in term of general tradition that might see such a figure arise from. I do imagine that Cleric do some priestly duty before coming into their divine powers, it would make sense.

As for Tempest... there's something about its focus on thunder and lightning and melee combat and Wrath of God and Desctruction... that just doesn't really mesh well. I'd see the Sea Cleric as more castery (probably being able to use the Trident as a focus) and less fightery.

 

[Parmandur]

Oh you're right, but I just mean in term of general tradition that might see such a figure arise from. I do imagine that Cleric do some priestly duty before coming into their divine powers, it would make sense.

As for Tempest... there's something about its focus on thunder and lightning and melee combat and Wrath of God and Desctruction... that just doesn't really mesh well. I'd see the Sea Cleric as more castery (probably being able to use the Trident as a focus) and less fightery.

There does seem to be room for a archetype there.