are armies any good?

[alsih2o]

i was looking over the lists of types and levels of n.p.c.'s in various size towns and it makes me wonder if you folks see armies as being regularly being raised in fantasy worlds.

it seems to me that just a few 10th lvl "characters" are an even match and better for most armies. so why raise one?

wouldn't a few of those high level paladins be an easy match for most orc armies? a couple of high level wizards could easily quash a goblin horde, so why spend the huge money required and waste the valuable plowmen to stop such things? wouldn't combat of champions replace almost all military manuevering?

any thoughts are appreciated

 

[Lurks-no-More]

A good point. Like with castles and sieges, D&D magic and heroes are going to mess with medieval warfare mightily. Combat of champions might, indeed, be a preferred way of dealing with the things. It's only when your champion loses and your king doesn't take his loss graciously when the mass battle begins...

Speaking on mass battles, doesn't anyone else feel that area effect spells spell the doom for massed formations of pikemen?

 

[darkbard]

while area effect spells are certainly potent, the beauty of the system [be it against a wizard or paladin hero] is that a 20 always hits. sure, your hero might chop down dozens [or hundreds] of orcs or such, but 5% of them are going to riddle her with arrows each round or get in a lucky shot with that greataxe.

 

[Celtavian]

re

You have to take into account that armies don't all have 1st level warriors.

Many armies will have elite forces, hired mercernaries, high level kings, a contingent of battle magi, beasts, cavalry, and other forces.

A 10th level fighter can hack down alot of people, but not many 10th level fighters exist. If they do, they are usually leading a unit in an army or leading a whole platoon.

Though it may seem easy as a PC to obtain 10th level, think about how often and how hard you have to fight just to obtain that level. Your DM's desire to keep you alive and create reasonable challenges is the only thing keeping a 10th level person alive alot of the time.

Face facts, "real" 10th level figthers would be rare as all get up. Most would die well before 10th level and the few that didn't would be major leaders in the army that would go against the other 10th level guys in the enemy army.


Note: You also have to take into account that the goal of opposing an enemy army is not necessarily personal survival. You have to actually stop the army from carrying out its goal.

For example, the 10th level Paladin might be able to run around killing orcs, but it does little good if they destroy the entire village you were supposed to be protecting while you managed to kill only a few hundred orcs.

You can't be everywhere at once, so when you raise an army, your goal is to stop the other army from advancing, while the other armies goal is conquer and pillage as much territory as possible.

The goals, not necessarily the power, are what brings about the army.

 

[diaglo]

depending on your level of magic or available funds.

armies are cheap for patrols. more eyes to scan.

armies can do things in shifts. a single 10th lvl still has to sleep or rest.

armies can be in more than one place at one time.

armies can be militia. militia are normal citizens. they perform multiple functions in society.

armies are fun to play with in mass combat.

 

[mmadsen]

it seems to me that just a few 10th lvl "characters" are an even match and better for most armies. so why raise one?

How many 1st-level Orc Barbarians can one 10th-level Human Fighter take out, generally speaking? How many 1st-level Goblin-Rogue archers laying in ambush behind trees and rocks?

 

[hong]

Re: Re: are armies any good?

How many 1st-level Orc Barbarians can one 10th-level Human Fighter take out, generally speaking? How many 1st-level Goblin-Rogue archers laying in ambush behind trees and rocks?

99 goblins and orcs on the wall
99 goblins and orcs
Take one down, kick it around
98 goblins and orcs on the wall

98 goblins and orcs on the wall
98 goblins and orcs
Take one down, kick it around
97 goblins and orcs on the wall

97 goblins and orcs on the wall
...

 

[KnowTheToe]

Remember rules on fatigue and you have your answer. Even a CON of 20 gets tired after a few minutes of fighting. That is why wave anfter wave of pathetic troops have always been a standard tactic. The verteran troops will tire and then, they will fall.

I also level any full time soldiers or militia up several levels. I understand that an army made up of recruited farmers is going to be a bunch of lvl 1 warriors, but a full time soldier will easily be lvl 3 or 4. If PCs level up after a few conflicts, then why not NPCs?

 

[Thresher]

Hero's are unique little snowflakes...

For realm defence, you need troops on the ground to pound on all the annoying things like orcs, gobbys, bugbears, peasent uprisings and so on. Not to mention all the other things like a rogue noble, or an invading enemy country, or to invade another country.
More or less what a conventional armys did back all through history. Theyre plentiful, theyre relatively cheap and do the job theyre intended, kicking the arse of people just like them

Now, on castles and the like, theres a reason for them to exist too. Sure they dont stop high level mages from teleporting in, dragons from burning the site from orbit or angry clerics earthquaking the joint. But they do keep out the unwashed masses wanting to get in, which is why they are still a viable structure.

Say a dragon turns up and decides that the castle is a 'nice-a-place to be', theres bugger all Joe-GI and the rest can do about that of course.
*ta-da*
Enter the hero.
Now, a wise leader will have a handfull of names that come along on a bards song once in awile and dispatch some lackeys with the message "omg! our castle got pwned by a big lizard!!" well, maybe not like that but you know

Its what hero's are for.

Now, Mr Level Tenfighter on the battlefield is a worthy foe, but if its just him and a few mates vs 1000 plebs they WILL cut them down eventually, abit in epic fasion no less, but being dead no less either. High level Wizzys and Sorc's are pretty destructive against a conventional army yes, but neither are they common or easily obtained and eventually they run out of spells, stoneskins, arrow protection etc and die like everyone else that sticks around.

 

[Henry]

Hence the beauty of three things:

1) Advantageous terrain.

2) 20's always hitting.

3) two 20's always critting.

4) grappling.

5) The limited appearance of great cleave in most heroes, except for fighters and a few barbarians, paladins, and rangers.

6) Deadfalls and other traps.

All of these factors will figure in to the effectiveness of the many against the few. Armies are still cheaper, because they are more common than high-level adventurers. Were high-level adventurers more common, then the armies would be filled with more of them, raising the capabilities of what the army could do.

Ask SHARK to tell you about the standard troops in his campaign sometime. They make Drizzt Do'urden look feeble!