D&D 5E Are Barbarian’s “Meh”

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Tony Vargas]

All I can say is that when I pick a simple class I know what I'm getting into. I can't speak for anyone else.

Well, sure. Once you've evaluated all 12 classes and 40 sub-classes in the PH, you can determine that the Barbarian Berserker sub-class and the Champion Fighter sub-class are, indeed, simple - about as simple as it gets, really - and are both mechanically weapon-swinging DPR machines, and both, conceptually, mundane warriors.

Which is, neither actually simple because of the whole picking out the 2 out of 40 choices that are actually the simplest, nor giving the player who wants a simple character much of a choice in concept. (There's a thread going now, in which vincegetorix, I think it was, put forth a fairly simple elemental-magic blaster, for instance, something like that would have made choosing a simple character, well, a choice.)

 

[Oofta]

Well, sure. Once you've evaluated all 12 classes and 40 sub-classes in the PH, you can determine that the Barbarian Berserker sub-class and the Champion Fighter sub-class are, indeed, simple - about as simple as it gets, really - and are both mechanically weapon-swinging DPR machines, and both, conceptually, mundane warriors.

Which is, neither actually simple because of the whole picking out the 2 out of 40 choices that are actually the simplest, nor giving the player who wants a simple character much of a choice in concept. (There's a thread going now, in which vincegetorix, I think it was, put forth a fairly simple elemental-magic blaster, for instance, something like that would have made choosing a simple character, well, a choice.)

I agree that choices in 5E are quite front-loaded. I can see why some people might have an issue with that even if I do not.

I don't think it requires analyzing every option though, a simple read through of the champion fighter should clue you in that it's going to be a simple class.

 

[Tony Vargas]

I don't think it requires analyzing every option though, a simple read through of the champion fighter should clue you in that it's going to be a simple class.

Sure, and if you were doing simple read-throughs, in order, the Berserker should present as such first.
More to the point, the experienced DM and/or players who introduce you to the game will most likely hand you a Champion Fighter pre-gen, anyway... (if they don't stick you with a Life Cleric for traditional heal-bot purposes).

 

[Todd Roybark]

Except The Barbarian is Not Simple.

1st thing a player/ DM need to do is decide on how damage will be announced, does the DM give the gross and the player subtract the resistance etc, etc. Is there any guidance about this in PHB... nope, so now game time could be consumed on nomenclature.

2nd Rage is based off legacy rules and has riders like you have to attack or take dmg to keep the rage going, don't fall unconscious, etc.

Unarmed Defense is / Admiral Ackbar/ a Trap / Admiral Ackbar/.

Reckless Defense sounds good, until you get pelted by Scorching Rays that would have missed but hit due to you granting advantage.

Danger Sense also had riders attached.
Many Barbarian abilities are "You can do X until Y happens".

Barbarian Subclasses are not simple.

Fighter abilities are "Do X"

A 2nd level Sorc, IMHO, is Much easier to play than a 2nd LVL Barbarian.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Except The Barbarian is Not Simple.

1st thing a player/ DM need to do is decide on how damage will be announced, does the DM give the gross and the player subtract the resistance etc, etc. Is there any guidance about this in PHB... nope, so now game time could be consumed on nomenclature.

2nd Rage is based off legacy rules and has riders like you have to attack or take dmg to keep the rage going, don't fall unconscious, etc.

Unarmed Defense is / Admiral Ackbar/ a Trap / Admiral Ackbar/.

Reckless Defense sounds good, until you get pelted by Scorching Rays that would have missed but hit due to you granting advantage.

Danger Sense also had riders attached.
Many Barbarian abilities are "You can do X until Y happens".

Barbarian Subclasses are not simple.

Fighter abilities are "Do X"

A 2nd level Sorc, IMHO, is Much easier to play than a 2nd LVL Barbarian.

Lol Unarmored defense is far from a trap.

 

[Todd Roybark]

It is for 'simple' play, because the questions of when to wear armor or not, when to switch to a shield will come up.

If you want just one stat block on your char sheet, Barbarian is not the way to go....the Barbarian needs lots of different 'looks' .

A Fighter can dump stat Dex, and still be viable.
A Fighter can dump Stat Dex, take Shield Master and be powerful.

A Barbarian has 3 stat M.A.D. There is a reason why Dex Barbarian is the most common search result when looking for Barbarian optimization.

 

[delphonso]

Boy, this thread...

So I posted on the first page about bailing on a Barbarian in favor of something more complex. I think it's worth noting that very few people are talking about the type of game you're in.

In a dungeon crawl, a Barbarian is a great combat class (tank of all tanks, imo), and in an RP heavy game, you could play a chicken and have a great time. Class and RP are, at least slightly, disconnected. The lack of tactical options did bore me in our dungeon crawl-ish game.

I would say, compared to the 3.5 barbarian, I'm very satisfied with the design of the 5e barbarian. In 3.5, with the changes to strength, con, and AC, I spent a good 3 minutes doing math when I started a rage. That's just about the opposite feeling a barbarian should have. I love the simplicity of rage in 5e - add damage out, divide damage in.

 

[PsyzhranV2]

Lol Unarmored defense is far from a trap.

If you use Standard Array Point Buy, miscalculated sorry, plus +2 Str +1 Con race choice to get a spread of 16 14 16 10 12 10 8 you only have an AC of 15 with Unarmoured Defense. You can boost it to 16 with an investment in Dex or Con with your Level 4 ASI, but you have to choose between that and boosting Str first, and if you do bump Str at 4, and again at 8, you have to wait until Level 12 to boost your unarmoured AC, bringing it in line with Scale Mail / Breastplate, and then Level 16 to get it equal to Half Plate. If you spend a feat to get Great Weapon Master, that knocks the progression back even further.

You'd be better off just buying some good Medium Armour and sticking with it, because it's going to be a long time before your abs can compare with well-tempered steel.

 

[Don Durito]

While there may be some situational advantages in switching between shield and not shield for a Barbarian I've never seen a player actually do it.

It seems more on point for a paladin, where you have concentration spells you might want to use that may prompt shield use for a particular encounter.