Are Buff Spells Overpowered?

Elric

First Post
Buff spells are overpowered because of the nature of D&D combat, especially at high levels. I’ll start by saying the most limited resource in combat is actions, followed by statistics. The least limited resource is memorized spells and abilities used from magic items. Thus, anything that lets you trade the abundant resources for the scarce ones is incredibly valuable. This is the basic argument that almost everything else follows from. Long duration buff spells do not use up combat actions, but do grant statistics. Some short duration combat buffs grant more actions. Some short duration combat buffs are free actions (Barbarian rage is a non-magical example). A power that is short duration (or requires an action but does not give any more actions) can be abused by putting it into a magic item.

The action problem is the reason why an NPC with CR= the party’s level is going to get destroyed. Every action that the NPC takes must be geared to incapacitating one or more party members. The NPC cannot waste time Sundering weapons, tripping characters, dispelling enchantments or even casting buff spells, because as soon as the party concentrates their resources effectively on the NPC, the NPC is dead. Hence the mighty yet sometimes disposable dragons. The nature of combat actions gives extra strength to having an advantage in numbers and make fighting solo extremely difficult. The players have the ability to dispel the dragon’s buff spells, move to get into a better position to attack and can even cast buff spells during the combat if they really have to.

The second most limited resource in D&D is statistics. By this I mean strength and other ability scores, base attack bonus, hit points, armor class, bonuses to certain key skills, saves, base damage per attack… This is the reason why abilities that are unnamed bonuses are so powerful. Consider a melee fighter, who takes Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization with his sword (probably a two-handed one). A +4 unnamed bonus to Strength is more powerful in every situation than his “only for fighter” feats. The predominance of ability scores is a reason why truly effective melee characters need extraordinarily powerful abilities (like the WeaponMaster’s Ki Critical and Increased Multiplier) or simply high strength. Strength and Constitution are particularly troublesome scores at high levels. Enhancements to Con get stronger as you get higher in level and at the same time a +2 bonus to Con gives you an ever-increasing number of HP. A character who plans for higher levels needs to have a higher Con, because benefits from Con are the fastest at increasing. The power of statistics shows why a Wizard who casts Persistent Shield, Mage Armor, Polymorph Self, Stoneskin, Tenser’s Transformation, Haste, Improved Invisibility, Protection from Good/Evil, Greater Magic Weapon, Fly, and Endurance is far more powerful than any fighter in one on one combat using the core rules. Granted, this example is over the top, but Stoneskin, Fly, Protection from Good/Evil and Improved Invisibility are not needed to see the power of buff spells.

The most powerful part of the buff spell arsenal is usually to get statistics that would be otherwise unattainable. The Persistent Shield, Mage Armor, Endurance, Polymorph Self and Greater Magic Weapon spells all have exceedingly long durations and one extend spell metamagic cast by an 12th level wizard makes them all day spells. Casting Haste and Tenser’s Transformation on the first round of combat gives the 12th level wizard with Str 10, Dex 10 and Con 13 (in the form of an Annis Hag for this example) 120 HP, 39 AC (+11 Nat Armor, +4 Dex, +4 Armor, +7 Shield, +4 Haste, -1 Size) and attacks at +25/+25/+20/+15 (+10 Str, +12 BaB, +4 Magic Weapon, -1 Size) for 2d8+19 (huge greatsword). This example required very little creativity on my part- all that I had to do was look through the PH wizard spell list. So I think it is clear that buff spells are indeed worth it. A character who has buff spells with be far more powerful than a character without them. In the case of the above wizard, he could use Polymorph Self, Endurance, Persistent Shield and Mage Armor defensively to get an AC in the low 30s. The wizard who uses buff spells to turn himself into an offensive powerhouse is potent against creatures with CR and can massacre other characters who aren’t protected by ridiculous numbers of buff spells. With the exception of Tenser’s Transformation none of these spells preclude the ability to cast more spells, so a spellcaster can still fight a magical duel as well as a physical one.

The question will now turn to why buff spells are overpowered, besides the incredible statistics that they allow you to get. Haste is one of the most overpowered buff spells, because it changes the rules of the game. Being able to throw a second spell a round gives casters the option of using up a lot of long-term resources (spells memorized) to obliterate their opponents. It also really helps fighter-types by making mobility useless. The combination of a partial charge and a full attack action (especially with Boots of S&S) makes almost any point on the battlefield vulnerable to fighter’s attacks. Any resource needs to be accessed as fast as possible in a fight, and Haste is the best way to do it.

If Haste is the singular most powerful in combat buff, it is only because a line must be drawn when limited actions are involved, and Haste is one of the few spells that gives more actions (Divine Power and Tenser’s Transformation can simulate this effect by giving an extra attack). The most powerful out of combat buff spell is hard to assess, because players can use any number of them. Greater Magic Weapon, Barkskin, Greater Magic Fang, the stat enhancers, Magic Vestment, the polymorph spells (and Wild Shape, especially if players get to take the animal’s full number of iterative attacks), Mage Armor and Persistent Divine Favor/Shield are probably the most popular. The advantage to using these spells before combat is obvious from my above example. These spells should be used all the time. You cannot use long-lasting buff spells too much (with one exception, noted below). Once combat starts, you can only afford to cast the most powerful short term buff spells. To give an example, my high level Druid needed the Fast Wildshape feat and a pre-cast Greater Magic Fang to be an effective combatant. The Iron Law of shorter fights at higher levels meant that in the time it took him to get hasted, go Dire Bear and buff himself, the fight was more or less over. In fact, two rounds of prepping is too much at high levels- Haste and one more spell is about the maximum that you can do once fully engaged.

Someone might complain that using all of these spells limits your number of cast-able spells too much. For starters, spellcasters need to get magic items and feats (Spellcasting Prodigy) to enhance their number of spells known per day. This is the one area where buff spells cannot help you. The advantage to avoiding damage, being able to do more damage and having various other benefits is easily worth the spells used as buff spells. In a tough fight, your character needs to be at maximum power as soon as possible. In an easier fight, the buff spells will just shorten it. Your number of memorized spells could be severely taxed by a tough fight, but if you do not use buff spells before the fight, that fight would have most likely killed you. A Cleric’s domains are a clear advantage in allowing Clerics to cast large numbers of their very effective buff spells.

A targeted dispel at high levels would often otherwise be a Feeblemind, Power Word Stun, or Destruction. I should also mention that Ring of Counterspells set to Dispel Magic (or Greater Dispel at levels 14+) is a very good way to ensure that your buff spells do not get dispelled. If the dispel removes on average half of your spells, it is well worth the insurance. Your opponent trades a limited resource (combat actions) for your much less limited resource (spells memorized) when they could have tried trading their combat actions for your life. Note that there are a relatively limited number of core spells that offer effective long duration protection against enemy spells, so a Cloak of Resistance is another essential item to have. The type of encounters that most frustrate players with buff spells is an encounter with minions whose sole purpose is to dispel the buff spells. Since a weak encounter that takes out buff spells is the goal, low level spellcasters with powerful dispel magic scrolls can be very frustrating. A low level spellcaster without the scroll will be unable to win enough dispel checks to make much of a difference.

The nature of buff spells is that buff spells that can add a new type of bonus are the best. An item that grants +10 (competence) to Hide or +3 (luck) to attack and damage is much more valuable than mere skill ranks. New spells come out in supplements (like Rage or Brilliant Aura), there are new ways to increase the number or duration of buff spells appear (Persistent Spell, Chain Spell), and spellcasters get more flexible (Mage of the Arcane Order) buff spells get more powerful and easier to use. New ways to add to armor class, like Shield or Natural Armor (mainly from Polymorph unless you are a Druid) is the primary method to make high Str fighter types miss. Divine Power and Tenser’s Transformation are good examples of spells that both add to Base Attack Bonus and grant hit points without using a Con boost (Divine Power also has the potential to grant a boost to Str greater than that of any other spell its level except Polymorph)

The item creation system makes the buff spell problem more apparent. A spellcaster does not need to buy magical armor or weapons- if they do, they can buy +1 Medium Fortified Mithril Chain Shirts and then Magic Vestment them to be +4. Items that break the normal spellcasting rules (Pearls of Power, spell-storing items and Int/Wis/Cha enhancing items) are very powerful. The ability to put an ability which should be a short term activated ability into an item as a constant power is far too powerful. Boots of Striding and Springing are an item that every single character will have as soon as they can afford it. Persistent Spell is also overpowered for this reason. Quicken Spell is less powerful than Persistent Spell- compare a Persistent Shield and a Quickened Shield. Quicken Spell can be used to cast more damaging spells than would otherwise be possible, but Shield is more valuable than 15-20 points of magic missile damage if you only have the resources to do one.

Special care also needs to be taken with items that give abilities from one class to another. Potions of Shield are obvious examples of this, but Boots of Speed can also be problematic (although limiting Haste to Wizards by making Boots of Speed prohibitively expensive until very high levels would be a problem of its own). As a final note, even though I have said that Quickened Spell is less powerful than Persistent Spell, that doesn’t mean that an item that grants Divine Power as a free action is ok.

The limited number of combat actions combined with shortened fights makes surprise and other evasive tactics more powerful (and more necessary) at high levels. Haste and increasing character power makes the element of surprise invaluable. Items that give bonuses to Move Silently and Hide, combined with Invisibility ensure that spell/items that let you See Invisible, in the dark and increase your spot/listen skills are required.

The best solutions to these problems are hard to figure out. I make no claim to having an especially good or comprehensive set of solutions. One possible solution is to remove Persistent Spell and to decrease the duration of many of the powerful buff spells (change the 1 hour/level spell to 30 min/level). Some buff spells need to be toned down, raised in level, or both (Polymorph, Tenser’s Transformation, Divine Power, Divine Favor…). Allowing Blinding Speed (you can take an extra partial action 5 times/day) as a “semi-epic” (say, level 10 requirement) feat and removing the AC bonus from Haste might work well, although I have not tried it.

Skill enhancing items (especially for the most valuable skills) need to be more expensive (part of this is just for flavor’s sake) so that characters with these skills have some advantage that cannot be emulated for 2000 gp. Boots of Striding and Springing are unworkable at their current price- they need to be more expensive and have less of a benefit. Things like a Necklace of Beads of Karma which make buff spells even stronger need to be removed. Combat needs to be slower- everything should be less deadly at high levels from save or die spells to attack damage.

Sorry if this is hard to follow, repeats itself too much, or leaves anything that you think is important out. It also is mostly confined to the core rules, because those are the only books that I own. I find it hard to write (and would find it hard to read) posts this long, but this issue deserved a lot of thought. Please tell me what you think! Thanks!
 

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1. YOu cant counterspell dispel magic nor greater dispelling not even with a ring of counterspells. Read the DnD FAQ
This means that your ass gets burned quickly after the first few of them got lose.
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Polymorph is cool, I prefer the Large Red Dragon or the Firegiant to mash up my foes. It's still not that powerful. As a dragon for example you cant cast spells anymore, and your items become unusable. And the new version of the spell is pretty balanced.
Only one change ---> and back to the old form.
Haste is countered by slow...finito. You cant counter a counterspell remember? Thats the whole trick just declare it as counterspell action.
I'm playing FR, and I'm pretty sure to have balanced most of the game without changing to many rules.
First thing I did was declaring that in this special world nearly 50% of the population has potential to become a hero.
Official game rules state "every 100th person is a spellcaster/user of some sort" does this say all?
Netherese empire says it all...doesnt it?
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First thing that I realized is how powerful and essential Dispelling and counterspelling is. It's much more important to rely on that than actually cast spells on your own.
Related Feats are very essential for every mage/sorcerer.
Without them you can bury yourself on higher levels.
Typical scenario in our campaing is overunning spellcasters with henchmen and followers while the cleric and the mage (sometimes even some hired ones) Counterspell and Dispel the hell out of the enemy. That makes combats often very nice and balanced.
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I invented a new feat -> Focused Dispell (+2caster level check)
But removed it as it became obvious that just everyone would take it.
 

Buffs

Buff spells are powerful, but as someone replied putting all your eggs in one basket can screw you. In response to your super-mobile fighters, I ban boots of springing and striding. Sorry, its just too good. You can look in the "BROKE MAGIC THATS WAYYYY TOO POWERFUL" Faerun books and find more expensive boots with less speed. That should tell you something.

As far as 2000 gold for a +10 item, I generally only allow the ones in the dmg or another wotc book to be used. One player tried to get a +10 competence to "use magic device" for his WIZARD (he had taken cosmpolitan). Feh to him, I upped the price by a factor of 10, seeing as it is an exclusive skill.

Haste is very powerful. Very powerful for the good and the bad guys. If I was an enemy and noticed a spell-caster flinging 2 spells per turn, he would instantly become my highest priority.

Counterspells and Dispel Magics are huge. Faerun also has more spells that get rid of "buffs", but a good ol dispel or greater dispel (which can also be made into items) is a good way to stop buffs. And what wizard wouldnt have a wand of it?

I think buffs are very balanced in the game, as you said you give up a limited supply of spell-casting for good bonuses when combat actions are limited. But, if you have all those buffs, I have meta-magicked my slots or have buffs of my own. And if I can reduce you by a large percentage with 1 spell (greater dispel) you can bet it won't be nearly as bad when you dispel on me.

Clerics are just tough, period.

Technik
 

Needless to say that in my campaign everyone who can afford it buys greater dispelling scrolls like crazy. The local red wizard store got rich by supplying us ;o)
Really its the trick. It's so much underestimated by nearly everyone. Counterspelling!!!
If youre on haste you can do it twice per round ;o)
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Its a clear hint towards teamplay. Thats why wizards are no good loners. Sooner or later they get toasted because some other spellcaster counterspelled his actions long enough to make him feel the grip of his Barbarian/Monk friend !
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Wonderful accessorys: Spellblade feature. It's +1 and can absorb even 9th level spells and throw them back one round later!
Just pic the most common badass spell and you're fine!
Make the weapon "warning" (also+1)and you won't get surprised by invisible spellcasters either!
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In my campaign its more like big groups fighting each other and not...party stumbling across some buffspelled wizard when they dont expect it...every two minutes.
The game should be about using sane tactics and not thinking about how to overbuff your enemy. It's good that you can turn that of so easily.
If its not your style of play then jsut forbid all the buff spells.
 

The NPC cannot waste time Sundering weapons, tripping characters, dispelling enchantments or even casting buff spells, because as soon as the party concentrates their resources effectively on the NPC, the NPC is dead.

That's one reason to use more than one NPC. Dragons are an exception to this rule, of course, but even a dragon can have magical or bestial allies.

Special care also needs to be taken with items that give abilities from one class to another. Potions of Shield are obvious examples of this

The rules for creating potions are guidelines. If an item grants a +3.5 special bonus to AC (+7 vs half the battlefield), then it should be priced accordingly.

A spellcaster does not need to buy magical armor or weapons- if they do, they can buy +1 Medium Fortified Mithril Chain Shirts and then Magic Vestment them to be +4.

At higher levels, opponents never miss!

I should also mention that Ring of Counterspells set to Dispel Magic (or Greater Dispel at levels 14+) is a very good way to ensure that your buff spells do not get dispelled.

Doesn't the ring have a limit? Wouldn't that take away one of your 6th-level spells?

Polymorph is cool, I prefer the Large Red Dragon or the Firegiant to mash up my foes. It's still not that powerful. As a dragon for example you cant cast spells anymore, and your items become unusable. And the new version of the spell is pretty balanced.

You can't Polymorph into a dragon, or into a creature with more than 15 Hit Dice... hence, no dragons. If you could turn into a dragon, yes you can cast spells with no material components. Dragons are able to do that... that's how they cast their own spells (they need the components). Also, a dragon can still use some items, like a Staff. In the FRCS adventure "Green Bones", a green dragon uses a Staff of Fire against her enemies. Dragons from MotP and other sources can wear Cloaks of Displacement, Bracers of Armor, Rings of Protection, etc.

You can Shapechange into a dragon, of course.

Haste is very powerful. Very powerful for the good and the bad guys.

Yeah, Sean K Reynolds said it was broken.

Note that Player's Handbook buffs are rarely broken; the clerical ones tend to be a little bit too powerful IMO. I have no problem at all with Endurance... what happens when the rogue is surprised and takes 70 points of damage in round 1? She will be surprised, if the opponent is Invisible and Hasted (and who cares if she keeps her Dex bonus to AC... her AC is so low to begin with).
 

Elric said:

Boots of Striding and Springing are unworkable at their current price- they need to be more expensive and have less of a benefit.
Which "current" price - the (wrong) price in the DMG (2,500 gp), or the errata'd price (6,000 gp)?
 


If you don't like a campaign with a bunch of cheap magic items that grant cheap abilities, either run a low-or-no magic campaign, or dissalow cheap magic items that grant cheap abilities.

That's what I do!
 

@severedHEAD:
You CAN Polymorph into a Dragon, you just dont get more HD than YOU have to a max of 15. Thats all. This means you can Transmute to a Dragon with 7-15 HD. But you can choose the Form anyways. So the max for a dragon is a juvenile with 15 HD ...<g> I dont see why it shouldnt work. Even more it clearly says that YOU CAN polymorph into a dragon for example.
So that should be no problem I guess.
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And no, you cant cast spells as a dragon because your shape isn't anymore humanoid...this is also very clear in the spell description.
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And for the sake of the polymorph spell, it also fobids the use of magic items in the form of a Dragon...read the Spell description damnit!
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Only in good old humanoid form you may use ur equipment.
If its not humanoid it melds into the body and is useless for the duration of the spell.
 
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